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What about the Panchen Lama?

This topic has been un-highlight by TRuth-home at 2-7-2008 19:41.
Kidnapping is what the Tibetans in exile claimed.The fact is not as so.Tibetans in exile deceives the west.

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Hi Angoose & spurbird,
  Please read this article: The problem with Tibet by Guardian
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/mar/06/theproblemwithtibet
Especially this part:
At the same time, campaigners' unquestioning support for the Dalai Lama suggest they see Tibetans as an immature people who need a godlike figure to lead them. The Dalai Lama was never elected by anybody; rather, in a process that makes Britain's House of Lords seem almost modern and democratic (I said almost), he was handpicked by a tiny sect of monks who believed that he represents one of innumerable incarnations of the Buddhist entity Avalokitesvara. The Dalai Lama is no more the legitimate representative of Tibet than I am the legitimate representative of Timbuktu.

Indeed, some writers on Tibet have pointed out that the idolisation of the Dalai Lama by western activists and officials, and of course by some Tibetans, might actually undermine the development of democracy in Tibet. In her book The Tibetan Independence Movement: Political, Religious and Gandhian Perspectives, Jane Ardley writes:

"[It] is apparent that it is the Dalai Lama's role as ultimate spiritual authority that is holding back the political process of democratisation. The assumption that he occupies the correct moral ground from a spiritual perspective means that any challenge to his political authority may be interpreted as anti-religious."

In elevating the Dalai Lama to the position of unquestionable representative of the Tibetan people, pro-Tibet activists are helping to stifle "the opportunity for opposition and the expression of different views" - the very lifeblood of democracy. It would be like Britain being under occupation, and campaigners around the world hailing Prince Charles or, worse, Dr Rowan Williams as our true, brave, godlike spokesperson.

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You asked, ‘But the Panchen Lama chosen by the government has not been approved by the Dalai Lama, is his approval not required as well?’ I can tell you Panchen Lama need not the Dalai Lama approval. Panchen lama stand for Buddha Amita while DL lama stand for Bodhisattva Avalokite. Panchen is higher than DL in religion role.
If you know a bit about Buddhism you may have read this "All appearances are empty and false. If one sees all appearances as no appearances, then one sees the Thus Come One." (THE DIAMOND SUTRA). Buddha Amita and Bodhisattva Avalokite don’t need reincarnate, actually according to sutra, Buddha and Bodhisattva is every where. Reincarnate is a process to serve political need more than religious need (lamas do not have sons). Since it is a political process in most part, it may be easier for you to understand why choosing DL lama and Panchen lama need some form of center government approval (the Gold Bottle Lot process). It had been so since the foundation of Tibet theocratic reign in Yuan dynasty, and at the very beginning of DL (in Ming dynasty) and Panchen lama (in Qing dynasty) reincarnating process come into being. I can provide you more history / religious / political background, if you want.
The point is, DL and Panchen lama used to be theocratic king, their inherit process was a theocratic process. We respect ancient culture, and we respect religious, but please do not tell me you respect a theocratic reign. Are you want go back to live in mediaeval Europe? In 21st century, DL must stop his pursuing for political regress.
BTW, please read some about the reign of Tibet under DL lama ruling. You may find some thing far overrun so called ‘kidnapping of a six year old child’. 5% monks and noble tyrannized on 95% serfs. Noble life price was equal to same amount of gold with his/ her avoirdupois, while serfs life price was equal to a grass-made rope. Serfs skin and bone were used to make craftwork. Serfs lives were used as sacrifice on each ceremony. It was among the darkest regimes in human history.

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Ha....ha.......ha......, Kidnap?  Another fabrication from the Unholywood of exiled Tibetan directed by the "Horrorness Talie..ban Lama"  Woo....ho...hooo....!!!!!

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Quote:
Original posted by angoose at 20-4-2008 06:31
  Throughout this event I've tried to be as open-minded as possible. It is obvious that a good amount of Western reporting on this situation has been farcical so I have been trying to gain a perspective ...
For Chinese people over the age of 50 or 60, who have study Chinese history, Tibet is part of China is something that goes without saying. A multi-racial country living in harmony was the central ideal of the Chinese people. For those unfamilia wthi the Chinese history I wish to show them this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Flag_of_the_Republic_of_China_1912-1928.svg

  This is the first flag of the Republic of China when Sun Yat Sen first over turned the Qing dynasty. The five colour stripes represent the five major races Han, Men, Meng, Hui, Zhang exhisting peacefully together. So Zhang (Tibet) is an integral part of China is clearly shown on our flag in 1912 to 1928, when the Guomintang took power and change the flag to the one they use for ROP in Taiwan.
  It was also clear to Dalai and Panchen have equal religious status in Xizhang (Tibet) althogh most people don't care to go into detail of the religious history of Tibet. As most people did, I just studies more on this topic recently and cannot be call an expert in this field. But the more I read, the more I realize the deceptness of Delai Lama and his claims. The following are some of my perception which might be useful for foreigner who find the foregoin posters too sophistigare and complex to understand..
1. The Buddhism in Tibet is not equivalent to the main stream of Buddhism practise in China, Burma, Thailand Japan etc. It is a hybrid between Buddhism and local religions (particular "Bon"). The long gown worn by Dalai and his perpetual smile is just a camouflage.

2.  The Tibetan Buddhism did adopt the idea of rebirth and reincarnation for any human being. But the rebirth of ordinary people is not limited to the human kingdom, it included all the kingdom. That is you can be reborned as a horse, a chicken or a tiger depending what deeds, benevolence or crimes you did in your live.

3. The living Buddhas of cause is supposed to be doing good deed all the time therefore they will rebornt as living Buddha after he died. In particular, the Dalai and Panchen being the good Superman will reborn as another humanbeing but where?

4. It is the responsibility of the elders and high priest of each of the Sects to seek out this reborned baby which must be born on the exact time their living buddha died and prove beyond all doubts from indicative instruction of the living buddha and other signs and phenoma. So the saying of the government or Dalai Lama appointed so and so as the Panchen just dosen't make sence, and as one of the major sect leader, Dailai must know this better than any body else.

5.  As for the recognistion problem it is even more embarassing for Dalai. It is exactly because of the subjectiveness of the recognition of the new born baby as the rebirth of a living Buddha, particularly Dalai and Pachen Lama, and once selected they will inherit great wealth and power, the different dynasties had decree that the inauguration of Dalai and Panchen Lama must be confirmed by the Emporer and supervised by the high commisioner assigned by the central govern to Tibet. As pointed out by other posters, in Qing Dynasty, fo avoid confusion of different power group electing different candidates for reincarnated Lamas, Qian Long had decreed the "drawing lot from the golden urn" to resolve the indecision, and assure one of the candidate only is ordained as the living Buddha. All thes rules and regulations prove beyond all double the the in history, the central government always has the final say on who the ruler of Tibet should be.  So Dalai's story or his right to select the Panchen or the central government "kidnapped" the Panchen's heir etc., etc. are castles in the sand , lived only in DL's imagination.

[ Last edited by xyliang at 19-6-2008 12:07 ]

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Reincarnation Child for Panchen Lama

This is what I knew while travelling in Tibet; a Tibetant teacher told me; I also check history book; though I couldn't know all the things, but I knew Dalai Lama lied....westerners even believed what he said so easily.......

"According to Tibetan Buddhism, when Dalai Lama/Panchen Lama is dying, he should give some instructions; based on these instructions, Lamas will look for a Tibetant boy who has the characters as Dalai Lama's/Panchen Lama's instructions say and appoint him as Reincarnation Child, and this Reincarnation Child must from Tibetant-living areas, so traditionally, this Child is from Tibet, Qinghai Province or Gansu Province. "

(But Dalai Lama told westerners a lie; he said, it is he who has the right to decide who is Panchen Lama's Reincarnation Child, so ridiculous!!! )

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Before Panchen Lama died in 1989, he talked about his Reincarnation Child, and Lamas found this boy based on his instructions; and this boy is recognized by Chinese government. He is current Panchen Lama.


Dalai Lama lied regarding about this issues.

Young Panchen Lama enjoys high respects from Chinese, including Tibetan people.

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The question is where the young Panchen Lama is? I hope not in some Chinese school being indoctrinated by the government. Religious people have the right to choose their predecessor, not governments. I hope one day the china government doesn't want to choose the Pope as well....

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Reply to 38#

I hope one day you stop to pretend the right on supervising government of other country.

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Panchen's Palace

A living Buddha is trained and worshipped as a God. How would he be study in ordinary school? That is really a naive remark! Panchen is living in his Palace/Monastary in Reuergche, Some 200 Km from Lhasa. I have been there. It has a highway that runs along the bank of Yaluzhangbu River directly to Lhasa. It is less maginifcient that the Potalam where DL use to occupy but the area it covers looks wider, because the slope is less steep.
  In case some foreign is still puzzed about the concept of living Buddha and his reincarnation. I have found a video named "The Making of a Living Buddha". Although the producer is a good friend of DL and a support of his cause, but this documentary series of the process of making of the film are much less antiChina as the final Production "The Living Buddha"  by the same producer for DL. It is a acceptable movie if we can tolerate some of the acid remark of the producer on China. Some points I note are as follows:

1. The film was takent with the concent and assistance from the Chinese government. (the final product complete denies it)

2. The film show the real lives of indigenous nomadic Tibetan Chinese living in remote montainous areas, you can see how their attire and and culture are totally preserved, and people are happy and friendly.

3. The Chinese who are technically more advanced are helping Tibet to modernize e.g. helping to provide support for the movies taking. The Han and Tibetan are living and together.working peacefully together.

4. The Living Buddha Karmapa 17, is the 8th child of a Tibetan family with 3 boys and 6 girls), a disprove of the "genocide" theory of "Free Tebet" clique. (han Chinese are allow one child)

5. The enthronement of Karmapa 17 took place in Zhebanf Monastary, in Tibet and was celebrate by thousands of ordinary people with concent of the local government. So the "cultural genocide" and no "religious freedom" accusation just has no base.

6. Kamapa is the Living Buddha of the Black Head Sect and his position is among one of the most influential of living Buddhas below DL and Panchen. Does it look like he is going to a primary school teaching in Han language?

  Without much ado, here they are:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=H_UmXYK-eXk&feature=related
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=rS6NLj0Y2zg&feature=related
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=cB8-oncFGHo&feature=related
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=nXCJ7VuzYAc&feature=related
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ddfk-yXosGI&feature=related
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ykOYtRN9zlY&feature=related
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ykOYtRN9zlY&feature=related

[ Last edited by xyliang at 1-7-2008 11:26 ]

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