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An American in Shanghai gets snubbed {ouch}

This topic has been highlight by ThreeHouses at 20-4-2008 21:47.

An American in Shanghai gets snubbed {ouch}

I am an American living in Shanghai. To the Chinese on this board who were offended by CNN's reporting and opinions over the past couple of weeks, I'd like to say "I'm sorry".

Not that it's really for me to apologize. I mean, I didn't say anything offensive about China. Some stupid commentator on CNN did. Also, a bunch of CNN reporters and editors got paid to create a big spectacle. One which reinforces the "us good - them bad" meme. One which provided enough shocking images to hold people's attention ("listen! danger! danger!") on the t.v. long enough for them to see some paid ($$$) advertising. Well, that's what they do, isn't it?

I'm not going to get into the details of what words or pictures were "right" or "wrong", or start preaching what I think is the "truth" about Tibet, or whether or not Jack Cafferty was talking specifically about a whole nation, or race, or culture, or just the government. Plenty of other people on this board are going over all that. They are more involved, more informed, and much more passionate about the issues than I.

Instead, I want to talk to you, my Chinese neighbor, the one who snubbed me on the street. Over the past several days, I've been glared at on the subway, treated rudely when receiving service at stores and restaurants, and had both individuals and small groups of people dramatically turn their backs on me, deliberately, in order to "send a message". I've even been treated this way by people who might have been happy to greet me just a few days before. I've had some bad experience on the streets of Shanghai over the past few days.

If you did that - if you treated rudely, or glared at, or snubbed, some westerner you met on the street, in order to show him how offended you are or even how much you hate him, please allow me to assure you that you did hurt my feelings. I admit it.

My feelings were hurt by you, my Chinese neighbor.

Now that I cleared that up, I hope you don't mind me saying something just a bit critical about all this mess: I am disappointed to see you baited into reinforcing some of the most negative stereotypes of Chinese people that western people hold.

So many westerners think that Chinese don't have the ability to see people as individuals, not even themselves. Many westerners are afraid that Chinese relate to other people as parts of a collective, and not as individuals with their own minds. All nuance eliminated, all deeper understanding removed, they fear justice being swept aside by a simplistic, broad, racist and nationalistic brush. When you direct your anger at "The West" to every westerner you meet on the street, you reinforce that stereotype.

Give us a break! You can't assume that we even know about these issues, which you have to admit, affect you much more than they do us. And if we do know about the issues, you shouldn't assume that we view you or your government negatively.

Another stereotype is that Chinese care more about "face" than about understanding, love, compassion, justice, friendship, or just about any other value which westerners highly regard. I've noted this stereotype gaining ground within me, personally. How else to explain this reaction to people you only casually meet on the street? It would seem that you're dishing out collective punishment because you fear you lost "face". There's no understanding, love, compassion, justice, or friendship in that. (And please don't reply with "but, what about America and [fill in the blank]!?" You have no idea what I think about [fill in the blank].)

I've had what is called an "epiphany" over the past few days. My view generally is that the refusal or inability to be "in touch with" your own needs and feelings, and to be able to express them outspokenly, is "bad". Western psychology identifies those who rarely feel strongly about anything as lacking emotional affect (nothing affects them), and identifies this as a sign of emotional or psychological problems. In the west, the inability to express feelings and work out compromise is considered to be the source of unhealthy conflicts which ruin people's lives.

Meanwhile, Asians feel good about not getting too emotional or speaking about their personal needs, feelings, and wants. When Asians behave in such a reserved manner, not only do they not feel shame, they feel that they are behaving in the "right" way! And this just never dawned on me before! It's so different from the scientific view of the West, but it actually took quite a while for me to finally understand how it affected my day-to-day interaction with Chinese people.

So let me paint you a picture:

From a western perspective, Chinese mannerisms seem bland, joyless, secretive, or even passive/aggressive. I've been told that Chinese view the emotionality, outspokenness, and individualism of westerners as bad, perhaps simply immature. So, in our "picture" of China, we start with the background; a smooth grassland, undisturbed by hill or stream. That's the calm, reserved nature of the Chinese people. That's your culture, as seen from the west.

Now in the past few weeks, westerners are being exposed to subtle anger in person, and outspoken anger posted on the Internet. One writer on this board sounded like he would be happy to kill any westerner he could get his hands on. (I know. I know. "'We are not against the western people, but against the prejudice from the western society.' " )

Westerners are being exposed to some strong emotions, coming from a people who are widely perceived as having less passionate feelings in general, and all these emotions are very negative. Please forgive your western brothers if they don't see your love, generosity, friendship and cooperation, as much as they perceive your competitive nature and anger towards the West. Above a flat plain of reserved emotions rises a tree of anger. In a picture framed this way, you can understand that the tree is prominent. Ask any observer what they are looking at, and they will say "a picture of a tree".

What happens if and when you get baited like this again, just before the Olympics? Are Chinese people going to treat all those westerners traveling to Beijing for the Olympics as unwelcome, just because another T.V. reporter says something bad about China? Are you really willing to do that? Are you willing to let the western media call the shots for you - make you behave in a nationalistic, racist manner, which just reinforces the west's worst suspicions of the Chinese people?

Seriously, is your pride that important that you're willing to risk so much?

I know that Chinese people study and work hard for China's physical development. But, for the sake of China's peaceful rise, can you personally develop the kind of emotional intelligence you need in order to engage the west without being overcome by it? Are you willing to rise to this challenge?

I think what you should share with the West is the good side of your life and culture. If you can, open up and express how you feel to western visitors. Take that chance. You really have so little to fear from westerners visiting your country. And they will really appreciate it. But whatever you do, avoid the urge to preach to us about the "superiority" of Chinese culture over western culture. You'll only end up looking foolish, and that has nothing whatsoever to do with whether or not Chinese culture is really superior or not.

Here's how we think of the obsession with "superiority": you already feel that you are inferior, so you have to insist you're superior. Because you insist that you have to be so superior, you end up feeling as if you, personally, are inferior. Then, because you personally feel inferior, you compensate by insisting you're superior, using the culture and this great, big nation to back you up. And the cycle goes on and on. People can sense this, even if they don't think about it much.

In the west, It is usually only those who are trying to get something from us who focus on something or someone being superior - a salesman pushing a product, a preacher pushing a religion, a potential boss trying to negotiate the lowest pay possible. We don't usually make friends with those people. (Except maybe the preacher - but that's a strange, strange relationship.)

Forget "superiority". Just do what you do, and do it well. Like what you like, and enjoy it fully. Meet who you meet, Chinese and western, and see them as they really are, and not as you assume they must be based on some stereotype. And enjoy that. Keep doing what you think is right, and have faith that it will work out well for you in the end. Try this, and your life will be improved. Your relationships will improve. Your economic security will improve. So will your chances of actually winning a peaceful rise.

I really wish you the best. The Olympics are a non-political event promoting good sportsmanship between the people of all nations. Don't let anyone mess that up. Don't let anyone bait you. This is more important to you than it is to me.

[ Last edited by goober at 19-4-2008 16:37 ]
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  • TRuth-home Prestige +5 thank you for understanding we know ame 20-4-2008 21:50

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but your title is really not fit for your comment

I think if you change your title into an: Your feeling was hurt by your neighbor   that would be better , No matter what nation or class people, when you talk about other country's people, I wish they have some knowledge. In fact for most of westerners they are innocent,  but there are so many media and politicians are evil. If we can understand each other, truely to be friend, don't have any bias, the world will be peace

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Original title

(The original title was <<Sex, culture, superiority, sex, and what's best for China?>> )

Ah, but the title is relevant. It's meaning is just hidden very well.

CNN - media - public relations - advertising - there's a common thread here.

[ Last edited by goober at 19-4-2008 16:38 ]

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I hope everyone on this site read goober's post above. I hope his words translated to Chinese and distributed. goober you've got a point - although you did ramble a bit dude heehee otherwise i'd be happy to translate

we chinese have much to learn and adapt to, to learn independent critical reasoning, to learn to have real national pride as citizens of a large country and economy, to learn to reach out and embrace our friends (and potential friends) while keeping the enemies at check, in essence, to learn to think and act as a grown-up of modern world. to be brutally honest, until then we don't deserve full-fledged democracy.

let's make friends instead of making enemies!

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I wish you can take easy of your neighbor attitude

Because I have a lot of foreign friends, I have same attitude to them, when i talked with them about Tibet truth, he didn't want to listen to me, so I was angry with him, long time i didn't talk with him. He was nervous, I know after some time, your neighbor will still treat you as before. We just feel your westen some people are too retroactive and  bias. In fact you live in China you can know most of Chinese people are very very friendly to your foreigners sometimes over friendly. Why you couldn't calm down to listen and see the truth in China?

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To laughing, and also to our countrymen

Westerners are NOT obliged to understand us. It is WE who are obliged to our country to let them and encourage them, instead of pushing them away

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i strongly suggest the admin put this thread to top

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To laughing: calming down to listen

I thought what you said was interesting: "Why you couldn't calm down to listen and see the truth in China?" It's interesting because the focus on emotional calmness is so Chinese, isn't it?

No, I'm calm. I also know that after a while, this will all blow over like a summer storm. People's attitudes are going to go back to the way they were before. The people who "snubbed" me this week will be happy to hear me struggle to speak Chinese next week, or the week after.

What I want to say is that I know you are upset, and that you have a right to be, just be careful with your reaction and the impression you give. When you host the world during the Olympics, it will be better for everyone if the interaction between Chinese and "laowai" is positive. Certainly the disturbances in Tibet and along the Olympic torch route, so closely timed with Mr. Cafferty's broadcast, made his words sting even more. But talk is cheap, really cheap, and it will be easy for another reporter to whip up anger among the Chinese people, when the torch is in Beijing and foreign visitors arrive - but only if you make it easy for him.

They can say anything they can get away with on T.V. The reaction is up to you.

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Chinese baiting is not the real

game of CNN and other western media. They don't care about the Westerner getting snubbed by simple minded Chinese. They are more interested in and aiming at the mass propaganda issues, to educate and brainwash the western audiences in their country to cast a hatred look on anything China is doing.
BTW, I don't think the tens of millions of overseas Chinese, who are the people coming face to face contacts, everyday, with their western host nations citizens, are SNUBBING  the western countrymen over there. If that happens, the overseas Chinese can't  survive till next Christmas. If that is true, then the snubbing is surely all mostly one-sided, that of the overseas Chinese bearing the brunt of the misinformed westerner wrath, getting snubbed and specially treated everyday since the beginning of this massive  reporting on XiZang.

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goober my bro/sis, i am sorry for what u experienced in shanghai, btw thx for speaking for us , upupup

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