http://www.michelcollon.info/art ... :54:30&log=articles

TIBET : true or false?
Test how the media informed you
Mila Marcos and Michel Collon   Envoyer à un(e) ami(e)    Imprimer  
  
The goal of these media tests is neither to shock nor create a scandal. All beliefs deserve respect. The goal is to allow each of us to determine for ourselves a decisive question: is what I believe based on reliable information? Or did someone try to manipulate public opinion on these big questions?
What makes a good judge? Someone who listens attentively to the contending parties, leaves her prejudices outside, makes up her own mind, and checks the reliability of each document, of each witness. Wouldn't a media reader or viewer find it helpful to follow this same method?  
  
1. "BEFORE THE CHINESE INVASION, THE TIBETAN PEOPLE LIVED IN HARMONY WITH THEIR NOBILITY IN A SOCIAL ORDER INSPIRED BY RELIGIOUS TEACHINGS."

FALSE. Religious doctrines imposed the superior position of the rich noble and the inferior position of the impoverished peasant, the low-ranking monk, the slave and all women, presenting this ranking as the inevitable outcome of karmic virtues and vices of successive former lives.

This religious ideology justified a feudal class order: serfs worked without pay for life on the grounds of the lord or the monastery, unable to move without permission. All life events--marriage, death, birth, a religious festival, to own an animal, to plant a tree, to dance, or to enter or leave prison--were pretexts for heavy taxes. Debts passed from father to son and to grandson. Those who failed to pay were reduced to slavery.

Fugitives and thieves were tracked by a small professional army. Favorite punishments: tearing out the tongue or the eye, slicing the tendon at the knee, etc. There tortures were not ended until 1959, at the time of democratic reforms decided in Beijing.


2. “IN 1951, CHINA INVADED TIBET.”

FALSE. The term “invasion” assumes that there are two countries. However, since the 13th century, the Mongols had annexed Tibet to China. As of the 17th century, it was one of the eighteen provinces of the Chinese Empire. And each new Dalai Lama received his “seal” of office from the Chinese Emperor.

At the end of the 19th century, the British Empire invaded Tibet and installed its trade representatives there. The thirteenth Dalai Lama took advantage of this to assert Tibet's independence. No Chinese party nor any country in the world took this request seriously. As of 1949, the U.S. State Department still declared Tibet and Taiwan integral parts of China.

This all changed when, led by Mao Zedong, China became socialist. The same U.S. State Department then wrote: “Tibet has become strategically and ideologically important. Since the independence of Tibet can aid the fight against Communism, it is of our interest to recognize it as independent rather than regarding it as belonging to China.” But, it added: “The situation would change if a government in exile is created. In this case, it is in our interest to support it without recognizing Tibet's independence. To recognize the independence of Tibet, yes or no, is not the true question. It is about our attitude towards China.”


3. “AS SOON AS SOCIALIST CHINA TOOK OVER THE DIRECTION IN 1951, THE DALAI-LAMA AND THE TIBETAN NOBILITY LOST ALL THEIR POLITICAL POWER IN TIBET."

FALSE. In 1951, Beijing and the local government of Tibet signed an accord on the peaceful liberation of Tibet. The Dalai Lama wrote a poem about the glory of President Mao Zedong and telegraphed him: “The local government, the lamas and the lay population of Tibet unanimously support the accord of 17 articles." It is within this framework that the Peoples Liberation Army entered Tibet.

The agreement foresaw the continuation of serfdom in Tibet under the authority of the Dalai Lama. The monasteries, the Dalai Lama and the officials would keep their possessions: 70 percent of the land. Beijing would control military questions and international relations. The local Tibetan government, composed of lamas and lords, negotiated and accepted the agreement. The Dalai Lama took the post of vice-president of the Parliament of all China, which he accepted without problems.


4. ”IN 1959, 83.000 DIED IN THE BATTLE OF LHASA.”

FALSE. To understand the sequence of events: while in Tibet, eastern feudalism continued, in the neighboring provinces where minorities Tibetans coexist with of Han, Hui, Yi, Naxi, Qiang, Mongols…, land reform got underway at the beginning of the 1950s. The lands of the great landowners were confiscated and redistributed to the poor peasants. With few conflicts, as the socialist State pays an income to the ex-owners. Resistance came from Tibetan lamas and nobility in these areas. They refuse to give up their privileges.

In 1956, they launched an armed rebellion starting from the monastery of Litang in Sichuan province. After skirmishes with the Red Army, a part of the Tibetan elite of Sichuan flees to Tibet and spreads rumors of “red terror.” From the beginning, the CIA financed and supported the uprising. Armed militia were trained in Colorado, parachuted into Tibet, and supplied with weapons by air. The bloody events of this period were indeed a struggle of the privileged classes, organized by the CIA.

In 1959, the rumor that,“The Chinese will kidnap the Dalai Lama,” sparked a large demonstration in Lhasa. In reality, the CIA had already organized the Dalai Lama's flight towards India. The demonstrators lynched some Tibetan officials, and the Red Army crushed the riot. How many deaths in Lhasa? Three thousand according to testimonies collected by the political economist Henry Bradsher (pro-independence). Sixty-five thousand, claimed the Dalai Lama in 1959. Then, it will pass to eighty-seven thousand. However, at that time Lhasa only had a maximum of forty thousand inhabitants. It is true that after the riot, ten thousand Tibetans were sent to spend eight months doing forced labor to build the first hydro-electric power station in Ngchen. But the unsubstantiated figures continued to circulate. In 1984, the Tibetan government in exile used the figure of ? 432.000 Tibetains dead during the battles with the Red Army between 1949 and 1979 ? !

[ Last edited by joej2005 at 5-9-2008 01:05 ]

5. “INDIA INITIALLY REFUSED TO GRANT THE DALAI-LAMA POLITICAL ASYLUM."

TRUE. Starting in 1949, the United States tried to convince the Dalai Lama to go into exile, with the assistance of his two brothers (recruited by the CIA in 1951) and of the German adviser Heinrich Harrer (former SS). It would take ten years before he agreed to take refuge in India with the layer of privileged dignitaries who will make up the exiled Tibetan community.

But neighboring India hardly wanted to grant him asylum. President Eisenhower then proposed to introduce 400 Indian engineers to U.S. nuclear technology. The Indian leader Nehru accepted this deal. In 1974, first Indian A-bomb was given the cynical nickname of “smiling Buddha”.


6. “THE CHINESE OCCUPATION CAUSED THE VIOLENT DEATH OF 1.2 MILLION TIBETANS."

FALSE. Two major facts contradict this figure, which the Western world has accepted without proof for thirty years.

   1. The Tibetan population pyramid in 1953 was estimated as at maximum 2.5 million inhabitants in Tibet and in neighboring provinces. If 1.2 million Tibetans had been killed between 1951 and the beginning of the 70s, most of Tibet would have been depopulated. And there would be a great imbalance between men and women. But demographers note no such anomaly and the population doubled to almost six million Tibetans in China today.

   2. The only person who had access to the files of the Tibetan government in exile was Patrick French, when he directed Free Tibet in London. Documents in hand, French concluded that the evidence of the “ Tibetan genocide” had been falsified. The battles of 1959 had been counted several times and the figures of deaths added in the margins afterwards. He denounced this falsification, but the figure continued to circulate in the world…


7. “RELIGIOUS PRACTICE WAS PROHIBITED DURING THE CULTURAL REVOLUTION.”

TRUE. Between 1966 and 1976, all religious practices were prohibited not only in Tibet, but in all China. The monasteries were closed, the monks had to return to their families of origin and devote themselves to productive work, primarily farming. It is not true that all the temples and monasteries were "razed to the ground." But the Red Guards, young Tibetan intellectuals who followed the general movement in China, destroyed many objects of worship.

When that turned chaotic, the army stepped in and restored social and economic order. The Chinese government publicly admitted the errors of this period and financed the restoration of all Tibet's religious patrimony. The monasteries were repopulated. Two thousand lamaseries were restored and are functioning in China.


8. “THE DALAI-LAMA IS A SORT OF POPE OF WORLD BUDDHISM.”

FALSE. The Dalai Lama represents neither Zen Buddhism (Japan), nor Southeast Asian Buddhism, nor Chinese Buddhism. In fact, Tibetan Buddhism represents less than 2 percent of the world's Buddhists. In Tibet itself, there are four separate Buddhist sects, the Dalai Lama belonging to one of them, the gelugpa (yellow bonnets).

When he visited London in 1992, the largest British Buddhist organization accused him of being a “pitiless dictator” and an “oppressor of religious freedom.” This “Pope” seems to have few religious disciples, but many political followers…


9. “THE DALAI LAMA CLAIMS A QUARTER OF CHINA'S TERRITORY.”

TRUE. Although he had recently said he would be satisfied with a kind of autonomy, in his books, he claims a “Grand Tibet,” double the size of that where the Dalai Lamas exerted local political power in the past. This territory would incorporate the whole province of Qinghai and the parts of the provinces Gansu, Yunnan and Sichuan, in which one finds Tibetan minorities among other nationalities.

By what methods? By driving out the non-Tibetan populations? Practicing ethnic cleansing? Yes. The Dalai Lama declared textually in the U.S. Congress in 1987: “7.5 million settlers must leave.” It is not a question of settlers, because the populations of these areas have been mixed for centuries. In any case, this expansionist project would carry out what all the colonial powers have sought to do for 150 years: to dismember China.


10. “DONATION FROM CHARITABLE AND HUMANITARIAN NGO'S FINANCE THE TIBETAN MOVEMENT.”

FALSE. The Tibetan movement indeed receives such gifts, but its principal financier is the government of the United States. Between 1959 and 1972, the CIA poured $1.7 million into the “Tibetan government in exile” and $180,000 dollars per annum for the Dalai Lama. This he denied for a long time, but ended up acknowledging it.

From then on and still today, the payments were more discreet, through cover organizations like the National Endowment for Democracy, Tibet Fund, State Department's Democracy Bureau… Another important sponsor: George Soros through Albert Einstein Institute, directed until recently by ex-colonel Robert Helvey of the U.S. secret services.

[ Last edited by joej2005 at 2-10-2008 09:41 ]

11. “THE SUPPORT OF THE UNITED STATES FOR THE DALAI LAMA IS JUSTIFIED BY STRATEGIC OBJECTIVES."

TRUE. Ruling U.S. circles see China as their principal enemy. Now China is certainly an essential economic partner, but also, in the long term, a principal factor resisting U.S. world domination. The USA predict that China will catch them up as a world power about 2030. They must then absolutely prevent Asians from creating a Common Market tied to China that would evade U.S. control.

These people dream that they can break up China as they did the USSR. Their goal is to control the economic wealth, the labor power and the largest market of the world. To weaken China, the U.S. has a two-track strategy. On the one hand, to encircle China with military bases. In addition, to encourage separatist movements and all kinds of opposition. They begin with media demonization campaigns. That's why they invest greatly in the question of Tibet.


12. “THE DALAI LAMA PUBLICLY DEFENDED THE FORMER FASCIST DICTATOR OF CHILE AUGUSTO PINOCHET.”

TRUE. British police arrested Pinochet in England, based on an international warrant for crimes against humanity issued by Spanish Judge Baltasar Garzón. In this occasion, the Dalai Lama actively recommended the British government to release him and stop him from being tried. Pinochet also was a long-term employee of the CIA.

The Dalai Lama is indeed a pawn of the United States. In 2007, George Bush presented the Dalai Lama a Congressional Gold Medal, the highest civilian award given by the U.S. Congress. His holiness praised Bush for his efforts in the whole world on behalf of freedom, democracy and human rights. He called the United States “a champion of democracy and freedom.”


13. “REPORTERS WITHOUT BORDERS GIVES DISINTERESED SUPPORT TO THE DALAI LAMA."

FALSE. Reporters Without Borders (RSF) presents itself as a defender of freedom for journalists, and many of its small contributors believe they are supporting an independent and objective organization. But the funds for helping oppressed journalists amounts to only 7 percent of the total budget. The remainder goes to political campaigns.

Behind these campaigns is dirty money. Actually, the boss at RSF, Robert Ménard, uses a double standard when he defends human rights. He criticizes Venezuela and Cuba by distorting facts? Why? He received financings from the Cuban counterrevolutionaries in Miami. He criticizes China for his policy in Tibet? Why? He received 100.000 dollars from the anti-communists of Taiwan. On the other hand, he is more than timid towards the United States, which killed the greatest number of journalists these last few years. Why? He is financed by the CIA through the NED as we already mentioned.

Similarly, Ménard forced RSF to cease criticizing the French media. Why? He is supported financially by the largest French media and some large multinationals. Moreover, the NMPP (owned partially by Lagardere) distribute his albums free. You don't bite the hand that feeds you. Ménard had to admit in 2001: “How, for example,could we organize a debate on the concentration of the press and then ask Havas or Hachette to sponsor it?”

Despite all these suspect financial arrangements, the majority of the mass media continue to relay Ménard's words massively. On the other hand, UNESCO ceased supporting him, explaining that, “RSF had shown on several occasions an absence of ethics by treating certain countries with very little objectivity.”


14. “CHINA IS COMMITTING CULTURAL GENOCIDE IN TIBET.”

FALSE. Actually, Tibet for a long time has been an autonomous area. Since the 1980s, the culture and the religion of Tibet are practiced freely, children are bilingual, institutes studying Tibet have been opened, lamas, including young children, fill the monasteries. In the streets, believers happily spin their prayer wheels. The language Tibetan is spoken and written by many more people than before the revolution. There are a hundred literary magazines in Tibet. Even Foreign Office magazine, close to the U.S. State Department, acknowledged that 60 to 70 percent of the civil servants are from the Tibetan ethnic group and that bilingualism is common.

In addition, Tibetan culture also experienced new growth in the remainder of China, especially in the fields of language, literature, studies of the everyday life and traditional architecture. China published major collections of books, newspapers and magazines in the Tibetan language. Many publishing houses exist not only in Tibet but also in Beijing. “Cultural genocide” is a political propaganda myth.


15. “THE CONFRONTATIONS OF MARCH 14, 2008 IN LHASA OCCURRED BECAUSE THE POLICE FORCE AND THE CHINESE ARMY VIOLENTLY REPRESSED A PEACEFUL DEMOSTRATION."

FALSE. All the Western witnesses present on the spot, including journalist James Miles (The Economist) and many tourists attest to it: the violence was started by young Tibetans who the lamas encouraged to commit destructive acts.

These were criminal acts programmed in a racist manner. Several groups, all armed in the same manner (Molotov cocktails, stones, steel bars, and butcher's knives), all operating in the same way, were spread around Lhasa, and sowed panic by attacking Han (Chinese) and Hui (Moslems). Civilians were burned alive, others beaten to death or cut up. Nineteen died and more than three hundred were wounded. Schools, hospitals and hotels were attacked. Many older Tibetans aided the victims and saved lives.

When these racist violences were exposed, the partisans of the Dalai-Lama claimed that it was all the work of Chinese soldiers disguised as monks, circulating an alleged “satellite” photograph that was supposed to prove it. We showed that this photograph was a coarse forgery.

The police force and the Chinese army initially remained extremely passive before intervening in force to put an end to the riots. How many became victims there at this time? The Western media spread the figure (“hundreds”) advanced by the partisans of the Dalai Lama.
Some of those the Tibetan government in exile declared “dead” are quite alive today in Tibet. Others were called “Dupont, Charleroi” without being more precise. Other names raised do not exist. The argument goes on.


Translated from french by John Catalinotto


Are you interested in our attempt to demistify the facts? Would you like to take part in our next project?
Contact mila.marcos.investigaction@gmail.com

[ Last edited by joej2005 at 5-9-2008 01:00 ]

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SOURCES AND LINKS (A & B in French)

A. GENERAL LINKS

Elisabeth Martens book, “Histoire du Bouddhisme Tibetan, Compassion des Puissants”, edition Harmattan, collection “Asian Research,” 2007
ISBN: 978-2-296-04033-5, price: 25,50 ?
· Book by Elisabeth Martens - Interview-presentation:
http://www.michelcollon.info/art ... ;log=lautrehistoire
· Elisabeth Martens - “convinced Bio connected, LT-light or dala?stes: about which left is it?” (Part of her book)
http://www.michelcollon.info/art ... :38&log=invites
· Elisabeth Martens - what Dala? LAMA does not say on Tibet and his doctrines
http://www.michelcollon.info/art ... ;log=lautrehistoire
· Tibet: Answers on history, religion, the class of monks, social problems, repression, the role of the USA… -
http://www.michelcollon.info/art ... :41&log=invites

B. SPECIFIC LINKS

1. “Before the Chinese invasion, the Tibetan people lived in harmony with their nobility in a social order inspired by religious teachings.”

· Michael Parenti - The Myth of Tibet
http://www.michelcollon.info/art ... :05&log=invites
· Zang Yanping - QWhen the Dalai Lama was in power, 95 percent of Tibetans could be sold like goods
http://www.michelcollon.info/art ... ;log=lautrehistoire

2. “In 1951, China invaded Tibet.”

· Elisabeth Martens - Tibet: Answers on history, religion, the class of monks, social problems, repression, the role of the USA … -
http://www.michelcollon.info/art ... :41&log=invites

3. “As soon as socialist China took over the direction in 1951, the Dala?- Lama and the Tibetan nobility lost all their political power in Tibet.”

4. “In 1959, 83.000 died in the battle of Lhasa.”

· Jean-Paul Desimpelaere - Chinese Les did liquidate the Tibetans?
http://www.mondialisation.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=7771

5. “India initially refused to grant the Dalai Lama political asylum."

· Comaguer- Les the USA, China and India: outline on the geopolitics of the Himalayas
http://www.michelcollon.info/art ... :19&log=invites

6. “The Chinese occupation caused the violent death of 1.2 million Tibetans. ”

· Jean-Paul Desimelaere - the CIA sponsor of Dala? LAMA
http://www.michelcollon.info/art ... ;log=lautrehistoire

7. “Religious practice was prohibited during the Cultural Revolution”

8. “The Dalai Lama is sort of a Pope of world Buddhism.”

· Peter Franssen - Dala? LAMA: “The United States is the champions of the democracy and freedom”
http://www.michelcollon.info/art ... :36&log=invites
· Nico Hirtt - ? propos de the visit of the “spiritual chief Tibetan” in Belgium
http://www.michelcollon.info/art ... :18&log=invites

9. “The Dalai Lama claims a quarter of China's territory.”

· Domenico Losurdo “Is the Dala? LAMA moderate?”
http://www.michelcollon.info/art ... :17&log=invites
· Michael Parenti - "the myth of Tibet"
http://www.michelcollon.info/art ... :05&log=invites

10. “Donations from charitable and humanitarian NGOs finance the Tibetan movement.”

· Infortibet - the CIA: “It is we who prepared the insurrection in Tibet”
http://www.michelcollon.info/art ... ;log=lautrehistoire
· Jean-Paul Desimelaere - the CIA sponsor of Dala? LAMA
http://www.michelcollon.info/art ... ;log=lautrehistoire
· Jean Paul Desimpelaere - “China forces the nomads Tibetans to live downtown”: information or intox?
http://www.michelcollon.info/art ... &log=attentionm

11. “The support of the United States for the Dalai Lama is justified by strategic objectives.”

· Elisabeth Martens - Quelles exits for the China-Tibet crisis?
http://www.michelcollon.info/art ... :36&log=invites
· Domenico Losurdo - Quand and why the United States changed position on Tibet.
http://www.michelcollon.info/art ... ;log=lautrehistoire

12. “The Dalai Lama publicly defended the former fascist dictator of Chile Augusto Pinochet.”

· F. William Engdhal - Jeux geopolitical risky: Washington jue Tibet with the caster with China
http://www.alterinfo.net/Jeu-geo ... a-Chine_a18783.html

13. “Reporters Without Borders gives disinterested support to the Dalai Lama.”

· Reporters site Without Borders
http://www.rsf.org/
· Jean-Guy Al - Robert Ménard received 100.000 $ of Taiwán
http://www.michelcollon.info/art ... :41&log=invites
· Thierry Meyssan - “Reporters without Frontières covers the CIA”
http://www.michelcollon.info/art ... :56&log=invites
· Jean-Guy Al - RSF receives its financing of Taipei
http://www.michelcollon.info/art ... :15&log=invites
· Jean-Luc Mélenchon - “I do not agree with the boycott of the OJ and anti-Chinese propaganda”
http://www.michelcollon.info/art ... :44&log=invites
· Salim Lamrani - Cuba, Internet and Reporters without borders
http://www.michelcollon.info/art ... :18&log=invites
· Maxime Vivas - the hidden face of Reporters without Frontières
http://www.michelcollon.info/art ... &log=attentionm

14. “China is committing cultural genocide in Tibet.”

· Ingo Nentwing - “cultural Genocide” in Tibet”
http://www.michelcollon.info/art ... :23&log=invites
· AlterInfo - a German sinologist refutes the allegations of “cultural genocide” in Tibet
http://www.alterinfo.net/Un-sino ... u-Tibet_a19137.html

15. “The confrontations of March 14, 2008 in Lhasa occurred because the police force and the Chinese army violently repressed a peaceful demonstration.”

· Michel Colonist - “Tibet: Inquire into a handled photograph”
http://www.michelcollon.info/art ... 28&log=articles
· Peter Fransen - Que did really occur to Lhasa? Journalists and tourists say another thing.
http://www.michelcollon.info/art ... &log=attentionm
· Peter Franssen - 5 questions concerning rising in Tibet
http://www.michelcollon.info/art ... :11&log=invites
· Elisabeth Martens - Tibet: a call of Bouddha with the critical spirit! -
http://www.michelcollon.info/art ... :48&log=invites


C. OTHER BONDS

If you want to read the version of the Dalai Lama and the separatists, you will find it here :

· http://bouddhisme.info/4.htlm: A meeting between Bouddhisme and Occident.
· http://images.library.wisc.edu/FRUS/EFacs/: files of “Foreign Relations off United States”
· www.iiss.org/about-us: chart “US troop deployment” on the site of “International Institute for Strategic Studies
· www.afforthecc.org: “Dalai Lama and petitions” passed on radio-Canada the 19/10/2005
· www.berzinarchives.com
· www.buddhaline.net: speech of Its Sainteté Dala? LAMA in the European Parliament (1/11/01)
· www.cerbi.com
· www.clio.fr/chronologie_tibet_durepli_a_l_ouverture_force
· www.dalailama.com: site of Dala? LAMA
· www.darshan.fr.eu.org
· www.karmapa-europe.net
· www.maisondeshimalayas.org
· www.mindandlife.org: site of Institut Mind and Life
· www.progressive.org
· www.solhimal.free.fr
· www.theepochtimes.com: site of “The Epoch Times”, newspaper of FaLunGong
· www.tibet.fr/site/gouvernement.php: site of the government Tibetan in exile and Free Tibet
· www.tibet-info.net
· www.tibet-info.org/amisdutibet/: site of the “Amis du Tibet”
· www.trimondi.de/Kalachakra/literatur.ka.htm
· www.trimondi.de: forum criticizes on Kalachakra
· éwww .wikipedia.org/wiki/livre_des_morts_tib tins

joej2005,

there are a lot of things said in this article, which shows only the side of the Beijing government. And I think, here on Anti-CNN were already said enough to show a opposite opinion. But in this article is James Miles from The Economist mentioned.

He made an interesting statement after he returned from Tibet on 20 March 2008:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/03/20/tibet.miles.interview/

Q. Form any sense of where it would go from here?
A. Well I think they now have a huge problem on their hands. When I left Lhasa yesterday the city was still in a state of effectively Martial Law. They've been bending over backwards this time not to declare martial law as they did in 1989 after the last major outbreak of anti-Chinese unrest in Lhasa. This time they have not used that term and yet the conditions now in Lhasa are pretty much the same as they were in 1989 under martial law. ..........

Q. Is Dalai behind this?

A. Well we didn't see any evidence of any organized activity, at least there was nothing in what I sensed and saw during those couple of days of unrest in Lhasa, there was anything organized behind it. .......There were no organizations there that ... certainly none that labeled themselves as such. These accusations against what they call the Dalai Lama clique, are ritual parts of the political rhetoric in Tibet. There is a constant background rhetoric directed at the Dalai Lama and his supporters in India. So it is not at all surprising that they would repeat that particular accusation in this case. But they haven't come across, haven't produced any evidence of this whatsoever. And I think it's more likely that what we saw was yes inspired by a general desire of Tibetans both inside Tibet and among the Dalai Lama's followers, to take advantage of this Olympic year. But also inspired simply by all these festering grievances on the ground in Lhasa.

--

In Tibet, there are every 10 to 20 years major outbreaks from Tibetans against the Beijing government. These outbreaks are fueled by the rhetoric of the Beijing government against the DL by blaming him or the so called "Dalai Clique" as the organizator of these outbreaks, always without any evidence.
These unrest will last, until the Beijing government stop smearing against the Dalai Lama without any evidence and begins a real dialogue with the DL and the Tibetans.

And I do not want imagin what will happen, when the DL dies. He always ease the conflict, without, him ....

de_guo_ren:

What would happen after the 14th Dalai lama dies?

This is a very serious topic concerned by all people who care about Tibet issue.
Not only you and I,but also China gov and all tibetan, including 14th Dalai lama himself want to know what will happen?
I want to remind you:Tibet issue related to a quarter of China's territory,more than 15 million people in Tibetan plateaue.
China gov are not composed by stupid fellows,they are elite managing country with 1.3 billion people.

If you always concern about Chinese news, then you must know Chairman of KMT, Lianzhan, visited China mainland and met with Chairman of CCP in 2005.Both Lianzhan,former Chairman of KMT and Wuboxiong,current Chairman of KMT attended opening ceremony of Olympic game on August 8 in Beijing.
So, Why did China gov treat KMT difference with Dalai lama? If there were opportunity to solve Tibet issue, I don't think China gov would pass it away

Patrick French (1966- ), British Tibetologist and biography author, he considered the Dalai Lama a poor politician, saying that he did not seek the opportunity to resolve Tibetan issue during Deng Xiaoping’s lifespan probably is his biggest failure.
Dalai lama spent nearly half a year in Beijing in 1954,he and Deng familiered with each other at that time.
When 14th Dalai lama and 10th Panchen lama arrived at Beijing's railway station in 1954, Dengxiaoping and others went to station to welcome them warmly.
Deng sent invitation to Dalai lama in 1979 after he became the No.1 of China.
Negotiation lasted to 1993. But Dalai lama stopped negotiation, close the door of negotiation.
Why did he do that? Because after USSR broken apart, Dalai lama thought China would be next USSR.
So he decided to stop and wait.  When he found that there was no hope to wait for China to break apart like USSR, then he sent request to Beijing for renewed direct contact .

"Dalai lama" means "ocean wisdom" by words meaning. If he want to solve Tibet issue indeed, he ought to  show real "ocean wisdom"

About what would happen after the 14th Dalai lama dies?
I extracted some words said by Dalai lama himself from "10 QUESTIONS FOR THE DALAI LAMA" to answer this question.   

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q.  SOME SAY CHINA IS WAITING FOR YOU TO DIE.
A.  There are two opinions. Some say, Yes, once the Dalai Lama passes away, the whole Tibetan issue will die. Another opinion is that the grievance will still be there or will even become stronger, but there will be no one to guide and persuade  Tibetans, [so] Tibet becomes more difficult to handle. Which is correct? I do not know. Wait until my death. [Laughs.] Then reality will answer.

Q.  HOW DO YOU SEE THE FUTURE?
A.  If you look at the Tibet situation locally, then it's hopeless. But from a wider perspective, it's hopeful. [These are] my last words on this. Not bad.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I think that "Reality will answer" and "Not bad" are not only Dalai lama's answer ,but also Beijing's answer for this question. However,which one is more "ocean wisdom", Dalai lama? Beijing? Let's keep our eyes on the reality coming nearer and nearer

[ Last edited by joej2005 at 6-9-2008 18:43 ]

Quote:

Original posted by joej2005 at 6-9-2008 01:11
de_guo_ren:

What would happen after the 14th Dalai lama dies?

This is a very serious topic concerned by all people who care about Tibet issue.
Not only you and I,but also China gov and all tibetan,  ...

KMT is a party, Tibet is a rigion or group of people.
Can this be compared?
Or you potentially believe that Dalai Lama and his exile gov is Tibet and  Tibet is simply Dalai Lama and his exile gov?

joej2005,

you miss my point. As long as the Beijing government defames the Dalai Lama, there could no dialogue between the Beijing government and the DL.

And there were several negotiations since 1993. Even this year!

http://asianewsnet.net/news.php?id=91&sec=1
Publication Date: 04-07-2008
Beijing may meet envoys of Dalai Lama again......... The Tibetan envoys left Beijing yesterday without speaking to reporters.

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## Patrick French (1966- ), British Tibetologist and biography author, he considered the Dalai Lama a poor politician, saying that he did not seek the opportunity to resolve Tibetan issue during Deng Xiaoping’s lifespan probably is his biggest failure. ##

I do not know him, but he misses a lot. Deng Xiaoping started the Great Leap forward in 1958, and in this time, he insulted the Dalai Lama. And the DL have to decide, to leave or to stay. So he left, while the Panchen Lama remained in China. If Deng wanted to settle this problem, he could do this. But he did not do this.

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CJY,

## KMT is a party, Tibet is a rigion or group of people.
Can this be compared?
Or you potentially believe that Dalai Lama and his exile gov is Tibet and  Tibet is simply Dalai Lama and his exile gov? ##

This is a good point!

The KMT does not question the claim to power of the Beijing government while the DL does. Religion is for an atheist government a greater threat than weapons.

Quote:

Original posted by de_guo_ren at 9-9-2008 00:29
Deng Xiaoping started the GreatLeap forward in 1958, and in this time, he insulted the Dalai Lama. Andthe DL have to decide, to leave or to stay.

I doubt that. Source please?

de_guo_ren :

Quote:

Original posted by de_guo_ren at 9-9-2008 00:29

And there were several negotiations since 1993. Even this year!

Negotiations in this year is belonged to the round since 2002, but not 1993.
DL stop the contact after USSR broken apart in 1990s.
Negotiations were started by a new round from 2002. and the negotiation in this year was the 6th contacts from 2002.

Deng had nothing about DL's left in 1959. Everyone knew that Mao was the No.1 of China at that time.
It was impossible about Deng insulted the Dalai Lama, I don't know where do you get this information
If Deng did not want to resolve Tibetan issue , he would not sent invitation to Dalai lama in 1979.

Below pic is Deng met DL's envoy, DL's elder brother,Gyalo Dhundup in 1979.
Gyalo Dhundup returned to China more than 20 times since 1979.
When Gyalo Dhundup was young , he was sent to Nanjing by his father, to study in KMT's college during 1940s. He can spoke fluent mandarin and married a Han women, a daughter of KMT's high officer in Nanjing.

[ Last edited by joej2005 at 10-9-2008 11:38 ]