Reply 13# gonzo1969 gonzo1969's post
let me firstly reply your thread:
1. they did kill a lot of people since 1949, it's true. but in 1989 they killed less than your imagination... please see "the Gate of Heavenly Peace", directed by American (which is absolutely banned in China but we still found and prevailed it)
2.I am in US now. When I was in China, I did said a lot what the gov doesn't like, but I was not caught, right? and our school even organized lecture about 6.4 for students, which is not kind of propaganda but exposed us a lot of facts.
3.maybe... I don't know. But even CIA kill political enemies right?
4.Yup, minorities have poor human rights. But what about Han? actually, our human right is poor, too!! so that's not problem about minorities at all, but all Chinese people.
5.That' true. Our people ARE FU?KING this all the time. So, do you think we are brainwashed?
Then I talk about so called "brainwash".
Firstly, personal experience:
I am educated in Chinese primary and middle and high school. It's true that our education tries to propaganda. But the outcome is not as expected. We learn those propaganda for exam only but most of us do not believe, and even the teachers sometimes FU?K the propaganda. I CANNOT DENY that we might be somehow effected, but that's really not much.
I am now in University of Michigan, which is a univeristy not of idiots or brainwashed, right? Yesterday I was in a discussion class Problem of Philosophy. Even though my English is not very good, my philosophical debating and statements were really outstanding and got well appreciated by the session instructor. DO U THINK A BRAINWASHED GUY CAN DO THIS IN A FREE COUNTRY?
And I never found any hints that our school attempts to let us spy our parents. That's rediculus! The only thing you can understand as "spy" is that our school teaches us, when we see our parents through wastes on the ground (which is very common in China, sadly), we should stop them.... that's the kind of "spy" you are attacking! LOL LOL LOL LOL!!!!!
Above are all my personal experiences, and I promise they are all true.
Secondly, your logic.
You think we are brainwashed, based on 6 premises:
1. China has a propaganda system (this is really true, which I FU?K all the time)
2. China's propaganda system tell people what benifits the gov (TRUE!!! of course!!)
3. Propaganda CAN brainwash people. (it CAN)
4. People should not support a gov which suppress them. (This is common political sense)
5. Chinese gov suppress the human rights and other rights of their people. (true but not as serious as you think)
6. Chinese people support their gov which suppresses them. (actually only sometime!! In more cases we FU?K instead, if you can read Chinese website you will know)
Then you conclude: Chinese people must be brainwashed!!!!
Here, your logic flaws are:
1. You go too much on premises 5 and 6, exaggerated.
2. Even if premise 5 and 6 are absolutely true, premise 3 did not state in what conditions can propaganda brainwash people. So you cannot absolutely say that's a result of propaganda.
It's true that we cannot view many foreign websites, but it never mean we are brainwashed right? Cannot view those website AFFECTS OUR ACCEPTION OF INFORMATION but doesn't affect OUR LOGIC ABILITY. That's like, you don't see sexpots in an environment, doesn't mean you loss your sexual ability....(maybe not good analogy... anyway, I don't mean to insult you here.... if you feel like insulting, I apologize)
An important fact is that, after the introduction of Internet into China, although people still can not get information from outside, people have a platform to exchange their view to the central and local gov. We attack the gov online when some injustice happen... even though the news is blocked, the gov cannot monitior all information in chatting software. even they monitored, they can do nothing! this is true.... I talked a lot of these things on-line, did I got caught?? I watched that good documentation (I also recommend it to you, although I know you were there, but learning others' views is never a bad choice, right?) The Gate of Heavenly Peace for many times, and I sent it to many friends and told them to sent it to their friends. But as far as I know, non of us is caught.... even the teachers who presented 6.4 materials in our school did not recieve any trouble at all. DO YOU STILL INSIST YOUR REDICAL POINT THEN?
And about the fact that you reported 6.4. If you already have prejudice, can you review things objectively even though you were there? Every year UFO followers reports a lot about fighting with alliens or even having sex with alliens, because they do believe it. But do you believe? (again, I don't mean to insult you but present an extreme example)
What do you think 1989 taught us? That CPC suppress and kills people? We know that much earlier. That Chinese people are idiots and do not know who to nagotiate with gov? NO, if you think idiots you are much more evil than CPC.
My answer is, this movement is not maturely organized. If they turn back to schools in April, when the gov was still leading by Zhao Ziyang, then it's likely that democracy can be established from basic level, meaning university, factory, community...etc. But the protestors stayed there, for no more political requests, but just stay there in a mess (you should have seen the mess right?), it DID resulted in that Zhao Ziyang faied in the power game in CPC. The result is then what you saw in 6.4.
So what 1989 taught us is that, democracy is not to be built in one day. If you go too rush, the building collapse.
Thank you!!!
PLEASE FINISH READING IT
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
