To saki,

I am not trying to be a  know- all person.  I am honest enough to say I don't know something.  Well, that is totally different than being
lablled as 'not knowing what I am saying."  I am telling you I don't know the subject.  Where does all these brainwash blah blah come from?

As far as Taiwan's previous names go, no, I have no idea what it was called.  Just like many other provinces in China were once called something else.  Just like the many dialects which I have no clue about.  Should I know them?  Yes, as a Chinese, I should know them.  Well, I will try to put in more effort and brush up on that.

As far as Taiwan's independence history, if you consider we are all brainwashed if we think Taiwan is part of China, well,  maybe I should say you are being brainwashed too to think Taiwan should be independent.  It is pretty tough a job to brainwash 1.4 billion people isn't it?  I personally think I am an individual, with values and principles and justice in my heart.  And of course, love for my country always.  Just like many people in this world.  Probably just like you if I dare say.

I don't see all the comments posted and anger expressed by the Chinese are a reflection of how badly we are being "repressed by the Chinese government".  I think in this internet age, information is at your finger tip if you want it.  Real and fake, good and evil, they are all there.   The tiananmen does not pop up on Baidu?  Well, google is doing anything better?  Any topics related to Chind are negative.  Do I consider that not "repressed"?  What a pity.

Obviously Chinese government is not doing perfect, lots of things need to be improved, including human rights and freedom of speech.  But to always hold what the west say as "The absolute standard" to judge China is just not right.  To demand China to obey to what the west wants is the past.  I know that for sure.  I don't need anyone to repress me into saying that.  
   
As far as I am saying Dalai Lama is wolf under sheep skin, I am entitled to express my own feelings isn't it?  I am a private citizen.  I feel that is a responsible remark based on the events that had happened.  When a public figure goes on a well-known news network to make remarks like what the CNN anchor did, he better had solid facts to support him.  He does not.  He is given power to guide the public.  He abused that power by not speaking the truth and spreading the racist hatred.

It is tough arguing with you when you write something and in next post you turn up and say, hey thats just my opinion. I am here to discuss not your opinions but facts. If someone says the world is flat and he is entitled to his opinion, well what can I debate about.

In so far as loving ones country is concerned, you show same traits of eastern bloc, jingoism and not true patriotism. If you were a true patriot, you would question the goernment and its policy, not just love it the way it is. I mean nothing wrong in loving it the way it is, its just that once you do that, you lose the right to debate whether your country is wrong or right. For example, if I say I love my brother NO MATTER WHAT, and he is accused of theft, my argument for him will never be taken seriously. For a moment, just imagone (however, improbable in your mind) that Tibetians really got the short stick, how would you discover that with your current mindset?

Trust me I am not a westerner, just an easterner like you. However, I do not blindly follw my government. i go to a polling booth and let them know when they do something wrong.

My simple argument was, if western media is so biased, why does China does not allow journalists from Japan, Malaysia, India, South Korea, Pakistan to go to Lhasa and cover how monks are killing and looting. My only question is this - why would I believe a news agency run by a government to prove that my government is correct?

Quote:

Original posted by saki at 18-4-2008 02:36
Lili,

Again, you accept you do not know what you talked about. Taiwan was historically called Formosa and there is tons of history about its independent history.

Know you calling Dalai Lama Wolv ...

Hmm FYI...Formosa is the name the Japanese gave Taiwan after they invaded it.  

The Portuguese also took Taiwan from China and colonized it, but Ming Dynasty send in navy and took it back, please read up Taiwan's history further.

So Japanese invaded Taiwan, named it Formosa then it's an independent nation?  What about the Nationalist Exile government from China that ruled Taiwan since 1949?  Let me see here...former China government, ruling Taiwan, now the exile government has right to claim the land the 2nd China?  LOL!!

Also, you say that as a private citizen you can say whatever you want, but CNN cannot because he influences opinions. You have a point there.

So what is your opinion about Hu jintao saying that Dalai Lama instigated the riots. I believe Hu is a public figure and controls opinions of 1.4 bn people (without competition from any other news media I may add).

Quote:

Original posted by saki at 18-4-2008 02:36
It is reasonable not to believe what western media says about country- i do not believe them many times. However, what is your alternative? Your country does not have internet freedom, media freedom and school books are written by communists who dont want you to vote. Can you explain that. Who cares about western media - your own people cannot tell you the truth if they wanted to. Can you type Tiannanmen square in Baidu? Think about it.

Hello! Welcome to year 2008.

Where Chinese internet, although censore at times, are quite more "open" then you think.  Everyone that knows how to read in China knows about how check and balance works in the US government, and the average Chinese here actually knows why Obama is kicing Hillary's ass right now as we get daily coverage on the US presidential election run.   Don't believe me?  Come to China, with your OWN Laptop (you don't want some imaginary commie spyware y0!) and get online here and read, hire a translator if you want.  [sarcasm]Make sure the translator doesn't look like someone being paid by the commmies[/sarcasm]

Hehe...again, you prove my point that most people pick and chose the part of history that suites them. Read a book called - Guns, Germs and Steel. very anti western book and dedicates a chapter on Chinese glory.

Taiwan was first populated by Austrnesian people. Lot of chinese migrated there and did business, introduced farming and traded goods. however, they were just traders turned colonialists, just like Europeans in Asia. just like Britain cannot claim ownership of Burma india - they ruled 300 , similarily, China cannot claim Taiwan.

There is lot more to Taiwanese history than exiled government on China. Read, learn improve.

Quote:

Original posted by saki at 18-4-2008 03:47
Also, you say that as a private citizen you can say whatever you want, but CNN cannot because he influences opinions. You have a point there.

So what is your opinion about Hu jintao saying that Dal ...

You have prove what Hu said was false?  You didn't know that leaders from several nations and activist groups held a summit meeting in India with Dalai just months prior to the Tibet incident?  You didn't know a Chinese civilian plane almost got blow up with Tibetants onboard that brought gasoline in soda bottles just days prior to the Lhasa riot?

We have proofs that CNN/BBC/Whatever fabricating stories.  The moral of the free-press is "If you said your mother loves you, proof it!"

Neo...I was in China last year. I am impressed with its growth and its tremendous push to improve 100s of millions out of poverty into 2st century. I was also in india which is doing the same. However, In China I was clearly told where I could go and where I could not, and twice i was told not to take pictures of places and was refused a flight once (out of access).

Not so in India where people are free to debate and question and elect the government. Also, I am not an american and have no interest in their election.

Quote:

Original posted by saki at 18-4-2008 03:53
Hehe...again, you prove my point that most people pick and chose the part of history that suites them. Read a book called - Guns, Germs and Steel. very anti western book and dedicates a chapter on Chi ...

How long did East Indies Co. had India colonized? And how long did Chinese immigrant to this island called Taiwan been there?  You are stacking the degree of historic and cultural influence on two very different cases.

So in terms of population, what is the ratio of native Taiwanese vs Han Chinese?  If Albanians immigrants can pour in to Kosovo, squeezing out the Serbs and now have Kosovo independent, with hundreds of years of Chinese cultural influence, Taiwan shouldn't be?  Who's in charge of government now?  The Chinese or the Native Taiwanese

i am obviously debating 2 very opinionated people. you guys put up this site saying CNN is biased. in the same breath you ask me to prove Hu s false?

Loks like you are missing basics of justice system. When someone accuses someone - the ACCUSER has to prove it, not the other way round. Lets go thru it slowly so everybody understands:

So Hu said Dalai plotted the riots. (Hu - accuser, Dalai - Accusee)

Why do I (Saki) - observer have to prove Hu is false? Hu did not invite people to freely see lhasa? Did he? Oh yeah he did - when the stage managed show kinda bombed with monks coming out and saying it was all lies.

Anywayit is not a surprise that your  government would do that - commies have done it for 60 yrs now. What is surprising is, instead of embarrassing you, it makes you proud.

It is almost like - It is all calm and quite in Lhasa (then monks enter and blow the cover) - oops we did not rehearse it properly - sorry!