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Sadism and Serfdom: the Story of Old Tibet

This topic has been un-highlight by TRuth-home at 12-9-2008 00:31.

to anthrophobia

my dear anthrophobia

first of all, i deny your accusation, i didn't criticize "any people of any nationality", and especially not "any chinese", but read my words, "chinese citizens", which doesnt mean all of them, but of course a certain number of them, considering their almost unanimous stance on the tibetan issue on this forum.
Then you ask for an argument - although it is rare when the defenders of the chinese government here actually provide any argument to support their assertions.
I will perhaps disappoint you but i have very few tangible proves;
but the fact that the chinese people don't have access to all internet sites just made me doubt of the reliability of their information. Then, the fact that any political opposition is gagged on and jailed -or even sent to work camps-, well, it sort of made me think something was wrong there . Then there are these stories of political "reeducation" ; maybe if you have the wrong political idea, you must be reeducated.. yeah okay, maybe i should have used the cord reeducation instead of brainwashing;. i'm sorry if it offended you..

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"it is incredible to see chinese citizens to give lessons to "westerners" about the bias of their information"...... I know it is funny from a western perspective considering that " all their information" IS, by definition,  one-sided propaganda (sometimes balanced though), but this is the way it is and it is not going to change, believe me. Hu Jintao now refers to China system as Scientific development one, taking out the word Socialist; probably soon they will call themselves democratic (actually they already did during the last "elections") and will start to give lessons to us on that side too...super funny...or sad if you prefer. In terms of history, Chinese don't really care about how history really developed, they won't criticize their past as, for example, germans did with WW2. The most important moral value of Chinese society is "Face", a concept that it is hard for us to understand;the way history books have been written in China in modern times cannot be explained just by the fact that China is, technically, a dictatorship; there is much more: History doesn't have to represent the truth (bad facts, good facts), history must not hurt the feeling of chinese people and cannot bring any evidence who can be read as negative of Chinese people and culture. For example:
- english used to sell drugs in China in the last century and this is bad, of course. But what about the fact that some Chinese people liked making use of drugs, even before English started to sell...What about the corruption of many government officials who were bribed and played a fundamental role to smuggle drugs in China....this side of the analysis is simply hidden or nor covered simply because it may imply that Chinese are (or some of them) corrupted and full of vices....(Face)
- the historical underdevelopment of China depends not on Chinese people, who may have been less creative, clever than others (face), but on external factors, such as colonialism, etc.
The second value of today China is simply this: Money. Owning more and more in order to be perceived (Face) as a better person: 2 luxury cars are not enough if I can afford to buy 4, whay not buying them? Charity is not important itself but it shows how rich and good I am. Making money by commiting "reasonable" crimes (stealing for instance) is acceptable unless they catch me (in that case I will loose face and that would be Horrible).
Now, How can you expect they will criticize openly their government? As a matter of fact it is (directly or indirectly) responsible for the increase of their living standards over the past 30 years; Chinese people are the most optimistic people in the world today regarding their future (statistically)......."Make money no politics" is the motto (and not "make love no war").....In a certain way they have more economic freedom that we have in the west....they can bribe, avoid paying taxes, focus on becoming rich........that's what the government wants to achieve....create an elite of rich entrepreneurs/managers who can raise the economic status of the country and eventually acquire companies/positions abroad......and they are supported by the government in many ways and indeed they identify themselves with it............So,  don't touch the politics! don't search for that piece of truth who can damage the harmony! don't criticize your own people, never! You have to become richer as well as your contry will become more powerful or fail together, that's it...... If you attack their government, you are basically putting obstacles in their personal economic development................simple as it is, and truth, justice, equality , etc... can be read in many ways.....

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Quote:
first of all, i deny your accusation, i didn't criticize "any people of any nationality", and especially not "any chinese", but read my words, "chinese citizens", which doesnt mean all of them, but of course a certain number of them, considering their almost unanimous stance on the tibetan issue on this forum.
You must be mistaken if you think everyone here is a Chinese citizen. I for one am not.

And I don't care if you think all Chinese citizens are brainwashed, this is a incredibly offensive and discriminatory remark against Chinese citizens(not to mention a brilliant way to shut them up). I won't allow it, just like how I won't allow "Chinese citizens" to dismiss you as a "brainwashed imperialist". Please don't repeat it again. If you don't like their stance, bring credible information to counter it, not accusations of how "brainwashed" Chinese citizens are. Otherwise I'll wonder who's the one that's really brainwashed.

[ Last edited by Anthrophobia at 15-7-2008 00:10 ]

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*** The author has been banned or deleted ***

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Quote:
stop the brainwashing
afraid of truth and facts?

worked and traveled over 30 countries. i have my own brain and intend to use it.

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Quote:
"it is incredible to see chinese citizens to give lessons to "westerners" about the bias of their information"...... I know it is funny from a western perspective considering that " all their information" IS, by definition,  one-sided propaganda (sometimes balanced though), but this is the way it is and it is not going to change, believe me. Hu Jintao now refers to China system as Scientific development one, taking out the word Socialist; probably soon they will call themselves democratic (actually they already did during the last "elections") and will start to give lessons to us on that side too...super funny...or sad if you prefer. In terms of history, Chinese don't really care about how history really developed, they won't criticize their past as, for example, germans did with WW2. The most important moral value of Chinese society is "Face", a concept that it is hard for us to understand;the way history books have been written in China in modern times cannot be explained just by the fact that China is, technically, a dictatorship; there is much more: History doesn't have to represent the truth (bad facts, good facts), history must not hurt the feeling of chinese people and cannot bring any evidence who can be read as negative of Chinese people and culture. For example:
- english used to sell drugs in China in the last century and this is bad, of course. But what about the fact that some Chinese people liked making use of drugs, even before English started to sell...What about the corruption of many government officials who were bribed and played a fundamental role to smuggle drugs in China....this side of the analysis is simply hidden or nor covered simply because it may imply that Chinese are (or some of them) corrupted and full of vices....(Face)
- the historical underdevelopment of China depends not on Chinese people, who may have been less creative, clever than others (face), but on external factors, such as colonialism, etc.
The second value of today China is simply this: Money. Owning more and more in order to be perceived (Face) as a better person: 2 luxury cars are not enough if I can afford to buy 4, whay not buying them? Charity is not important itself but it shows how rich and good I am. Making money by commiting "reasonable" crimes (stealing for instance) is acceptable unless they catch me (in that case I will loose face and that would be Horrible).
Now, How can you expect they will criticize openly their government? As a matter of fact it is (directly or indirectly) responsible for the increase of their living standards over the past 30 years; Chinese people are the most optimistic people in the world today regarding their future (statistically)......."Make money no politics" is the motto (and not "make love no war").....In a certain way they have more economic freedom that we have in the west....they can bribe, avoid paying taxes, focus on becoming rich........that's what the government wants to achieve....create an elite of rich entrepreneurs/managers who can raise the economic status of the country and eventually acquire companies/positions abroad......and they are supported by the government in many ways and indeed they identify themselves with it............So,  don't touch the politics! don't search for that piece of truth who can damage the harmony! don't criticize your own people, never! You have to become richer as well as your contry will become more powerful or fail together, that's it...... If you attack their government, you are basically putting obstacles in their personal economic development................simple as it is, and truth, justice, equality , etc... can be read in many ways.....
nazi germany used similar words attacking jewish people, rallied hatred against jews. you learned that well.

but hatred would get you nowhere....

i am ethic manchurian and i am proud of that heritage, but foremost, i am a chinese.

[ Last edited by ipfreak at 15-7-2008 11:44 ]

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Anthrophobia, I only talked about the Chinese here on this forum. I can only hope they don't represent the convictions of Chinese nationality. Also, you shouldn't be so heavy-handed in dealing with your members.
If you are talking about only one Chinese on this forum, then it's one Chinese too many. I can respect your opinion, but you got to give the same respect to other people with a differing opinion in return. Calling them brainwashed is offensive, and thus against forum rules. Not to mention it provokes anger amongst Chinese, and they'll lash back, you'll get angry and lash back, the cycle goes on and on until I end up banning a whole lot of people.

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