1. How much do you know Tibet? Have you been to Tibet? Or at least, can you point out Tibet in the world map?

2. Do you know "most" Tibetain 's thoughts? I mean "most", that means those tibetains in exile do not necessarily represent the majority of 6 mln tibetans within Chinese border.

3. There are numerous separism in the world? Why does the tibetan issue caught so much attention? Is it not weird that most people waving the "Free Tibet" slogans and the so-called lion flag are white instead of Tibetans themselves?

4. How much do you know the current autonomy Tibet now enjoy? And do you know that the tibetans are now enjoy preferenc in taxation (they do not need pay a single cent of tax), education (real free education), employment, etc?

5. Many westerners would like to say " If most Tibetans want independence, they should be given it."  But do you know that there are many other ethinic groups have been living in the so-called "Great Tibet" region for centuries? And do you think they should be ignored?

6. If the birth of a new country would bring endless conflict, death and even war, don't you think this should be handled with more care?

7. Who would benefit most from the independence? Those in exile? or those common herdsmen in tibetan plateau?

8. What have the westerners done in the passed two centuries? Do you think you have kind of moral superiority over China?

9. Dalai Lama claimed that Tibet was an independent country ever since, but was there any Tibetan embassy in other country (such as India or Nepal) before 1959?

10. When you criticize Chinese for being selfish, don't you feel shame of yourself? For you want China and Chinese people to make sacrifaction and take huge risks just to satisfy your personal illusion?

[ Last edited by Templar at 27-4-2008 00:50 ]

1) sarcastic question...anyway, I reply with another....who were the firstpeople to climb Mount Everest?

2) let's ask them through a referendum....

3) because they maintained intact their culture (religion, language, etc..) and were not changed by any other.

4) some people don't give a shit of preferencial policy, they just want to be set up free

5) are you sure? I would like to see from the demographic point of view how many non tibetans lived in lhasa in 1950? But please give me documents

6) I DON"T THINK THEY SHOULD BE INDEPENDENT, AT ALL. I don't like countries founded on religions; but I understand their concern: they are afraid in 200 years to be 5% of the populartion of Tibet

7) no one

8) No , but at least we have removed all the miths and letal ideals of the 900: communism, fascism, nationalism, etc..

9) the problem is that Tibet wasn't a country as China wasn't for a long time.

10) don't understand, generally I like chinese people

How about ask native americans through a referendum? People in California? In Texas?  Does native americansmaintain "intact their culture"?

To bedifferent : 1)
The New  Zealand adventurer Edmund Hillary climbed to the  Mount Everest with his Nepalese guide Tenzing from the Mount’s Nepalese  Side  in 1953.   Does this support westerners knowing Xizang (Tibet ) more than Chinese ?   
2) Who are US here ?  Who  are THEM ?  We need to have very clear legitimate definitions  first.
3) If one has no basic knowledge about  Tibet’s yesterday and today, without even knowing where it sits, the Free Tibet is for their own fantasy but nothing.
4) Again,  who is SOME PEOPLE ?  A couple of thousands of those living in a foreign land for half century?    What does  FREE refer here?   Free to own serfs ? Free to chop serfs heads or peel their skin for religious sacrifice?
5) The proper  way to challenge others opinion is to get the documents supporting the challenge by yourself, isn’t  it?
6) Agree with the one in capital letters.  But, the concern is just a concern, not necessarily a real happening.  If you visit Tibet, you will note with its average altitude 4000 m above the sea level and 1/3 less oxygen in the air comparing to most  other areas ,  no other ethnic people like Tibetan can easily live there  for long time.
7)Agree
8)Not quite catch your  points, what do Miths and  letal mean ?
9) You mean China wasn’t a country neither?
10)Generally, we Chinese like people from different culture too .

If someone got offended I apologize, I just wanted to show how it looks like to be attacked ...what I said is not wrong or correct by definition....it is just provocative and as most of your comments, only can be explained or rejected within a more serious context/approach. In this sense , I don't think this website is useful anymore, it already achieved some key objectives and it is not providing further interesting discussion platform since a few weeks........at least for me, so no more "bedifferent".

I sincerly hope the fact that your country will become a superpower will bring you real happiness and peace....


keep it up

To Bedidderent,

The site's useful or not useful is up to readers indivadually , as long as  the site is visited. Welcome to join us any time you like .

We indeed hope our motherland China will bring us better and better happy life, but it doesn't  mean A Superpower being a precondition.    Chinese are real peace-loving people, who has had very unstained record away from  invasion of others homeland no matter it was  superpower in its 5000 history. Never in future.

To bedifferent:

What I mean is that don't you think it is foolish to defend something while you know almost nothing about it? I don't think the question that who is the first people to climb Mount Everest is comparable basic geographic knowledge about a place you defend. You are either quibbling or logically confused in my opinion.

Your concern of "they are afraid in 200 years to be 5% of the populartion of Tibet" doesn't stand at all. Due to the unique geographic feature Tibet holds, other ethinc group is unable to root there.  Yes, there are many Han and Muslims people there, but most of them are just making money there and not plan to live there forever.They are not used to live in a place of such high altitude.Yes, Han people did settle in many other places around the world, but Tibet is a unique place. If you don't believe my words, you can try to live there for some time. Further, most of the "immigrants" live in big cities, for the countryside, it's still tibetan's world.

I can see that you pay sympathy for tibetan people because they are kind "pure". However, I wonder whether you will be kind of disappointment after you getting to know more about them? They did change a lot, at least those in town. But they are not changed by others (you are right in this point) but themselves!

This March, BBC has promoted a 5-Episode documentary: A year in Tibet. There is no Chinese official accompany during the shooting so it is quite "free", and instead of being political, that documentary just focus on daily life of average (or below average) tibetans, I think people can learn a lot through it. They are just human beings like us. I do think the government has made some mistakes especially during the Culture Revolution, but it is now trying to make compensation. However, the west focus on the past and be blind to all efforts made by the government and common Chinese people, this is what make Chinese angry.

Anyway, thank you for the reply, actually, forum is a place to exchange ideas, we are not forcing others to accept our ideas, but just giving out our voices.

For other non-tibetan ethinic groups live in the Great Tibet Region:

Muslims:
http://www.fonsvitae.com/tibetvideo.html

Yi :
http://www.ethnologue.com/show_language.asp?code=iii

Menba:
http://www.paulnoll.com/China/Minorities/min-Menba.html

Lhoba:
http://www.paulnoll.com/China/Minorities/min-Lhoba.html

Also there are many Mongolians, Qiang and huge population of Muslims in Qinghai province which is also within the so called "Great Tibet Region".

I think you've posted these words elsewhere on this forum, here I have to reply you again

Quote:

I just wanted to show how it looks like to be attacked

You don't need to show us "how it looks like to be attacked". We've suffered enough from your self-claimed "free objective impartial" western media and politicians during the last few weeks, even since more than 100 years ago.
    So now you feel attacked? I would like to know how you feel while being attacked, it can help you understand our rage and respect others.

Quote:

I sincerly hope the fact that your country will become a superpower will bring you real happiness and peace....

Thank you very much for your bless. Not like your US, we Chinese have no interest in becoming superpower at all. (but if you force us to do so, we may try it). We are only interested in happiness and peace, and we think we can achieve them, no matter how the western contemptible scoundrels attack and slander us.

It is hard to communicate with someone who equates Communism and Fascism; it is harder to  understand someone who shows no respect for the history. You are illogically self-contradictory (you said you didn't think Tibet should be independent, yet you keep implying that the Tibetans have no freedom and their culture is endangered by Chinese rule) I sense no friendliness in you even when u said generally u like Chinese people.
Freedom is a good word but u manipulate it to ......( I don't want to elaborate on your possible intention)