Still a lot of ppl didn't got the point .

[ Last edited by brainwasher at 24-4-2008 19:39 ]

Quote:

Original posted by Katzenfreund at 23-4-2008 05:34
@silkroad
Please don't feel offended. It's not my intention to offend somebody here.

>ethnic genocide. This type of democracy is exactly what western countries push China to do.
I totally agree w ...

Hello, Ein

I would just like to say thank you very much for you discussion. I don't have time to discuss more at this moment, but it is a pleasure to discuss with you. I hope I can find some time soon for further discussion

Thank you again.

Zhao Fengnian

facts:
democrat country all over Africa but you know how it looks like there now

facts:
China is so called"communist" country but in fact those "capitalism", "communisim" shit are all come from west. China just run as it should be no matter which ideology ("cat is a good cat only if it can catch the mouse no matter it's white or black"). So don't be fooled by west propaganda of communisim/capitalism/freedom/democracy

If you go ask a iraq people now he knows freedom and democracy is no doubt better than tyrant or dictatorship the peoblem is not there the problem is if the goverment is doing what it should do or wether it's curropt or not. The law is balanced or biased toward poor class etc etc.

As a Chinese that's all i can tell ya, Don't listen to others do what is right which fit your condition.

Dear Chinese friends:  
I am Spanish and I live in Barcelona, in the street Casanova.  
I believe that western people in good faith, they should not say to what a China she should make.  
Western people in good faith, as me, we should fight in our countries to apply the ideas in those that we believe. We should also demonstrate our support to China in our countries, and not telling the Chinese what they should make in China.  
The Westerners are not the center of the world. We should use less words and more facts in our countries to prevent our government to attack China.  
I have hung the flag of the Popular Republic of China in the balcony of my housing, so that he sees it everybody in the center of Barcelona. You can see the flag in my housing in the picture.  
That can be a way to demonstrate to my government from Spain that there are Spaniards that we don't agree with attacking China.  
Mr. Katzenfreund, you make the same thing that me!

Quote:

Original posted by idiotbutcherer at 24-4-2008 16:19
We love the idea of democracy. But we will never allow the West to intervene in our internal politics for their own political ends. Countries act in their own interest. ............
"Democracy is no longer just a political system. It is an international reality. But international reality is driven by national interests plus the ambition of some national leaders. (1) To impose the same value systems on other peoples. (2) To accept 'friendly' governments and reject 'unfriendly' governments. (3) To punish governments who do not uphold or reject the same value systems. In this game, righteousness, or the concern for the common people, is never the primary consideration. International reality is based on power and strength."

Very true indeed.

A recent example is the election in Palestine where western-style democratic election was carried out under the watchful eyes of USA and its allies.

Expectation of the west : USA and its allies wanted Abas' party to win.
The result : Hamas won the election.Hamas was the choice of the people of Palestine

What happened subsequently? USA and its allies refused to recognize Hamas' government, cut off financing to the Palestinian government of Hamas, and continue to support Abas' government.
More chaos in Palestine!

The moral of the story : Democracy is not what western countries champion. What they want is the government with leaders who listen to them and kow-tow to them!

[ Last edited by Jigong at 24-4-2008 23:22 ]

Quote:

Original posted by JoseMaria at 24-4-2008 22:37
Dear Chinese friends:  
.... We should also demonstrate our support to China in our countries, and not telling the Chinese what they should make in China.   

Thank you, JoseMaria. Thank you for accepting and treating us as your friends!
Lets work together for a better, more peaceful and harmonious  world for all humankind.

#68: "... democracy can only be realized in a stable, economic strong society, not in hunger, chaos, or riots.  We want to build up a strong base for it.  Although it isn't  in  big headline of media, but it exist in our life, that's what we want.  We don鈥檛 want to be Iraq, or any other failure case....Food, shelter, and appropriate education are priority human rights everywhere,  for a country of 1.4 billion population, this is a big and hard  work to do. ...Nevertheless,  today is better than any time in our history regarding democracy and human rights."

Totally agree.

[ Last edited by StevenL at 25-4-2008 00:43 ]

Everybody!  This Nick (#66 posting) is a "Free-Tibet" separatist -- Shut up now!  Isn't the western hemisphere big enough a circus for a clown like you?  

To protect our national security and unity, we need to silence him.  Period.

Replying to Nick鈥檚 #66 post.

Nick, uhh, perhaps you should go to the library and look up a book on modern Chinese history and read it thoroughly.  This might then help you from making such stupid and inaccurate comments.  You see, socialism was pushed onto the Han Chinese too after Mao pushed the KMT off of mainland China to Taiwan in 1949.  Mao pushed his style of communism, socialism, whatever onto EVERYONE who was living in China at that time.  During this push, Tibetans, Mongolians, Hans, and other Chinese ethnicities suffered equally.  Mao鈥檚 Red Guards burned and destroyed many Confucius, Buddhist, and Taoist temples across China, not just the Buddhist temples in Tibet.  Did the Chinese practice socialism prior to Mao?  Nope.  Chinese weren鈥檛 born with socialist ideologies.  Prior to Mao鈥檚 complete control of China, China was just recovering from the brutal Japanese occupation which there really wasn鈥檛 an effective central government in place during its struggle for survival against Imperial Japan.  For decades, the Qing had been dying.  After the final fall of the Qing in 1911, KMT tried to govern China but not effectively.  Between 1911 and the full scale Japanese invasion of China in 1937, China was mostly divided up between various warlords who setup their own rules.  Prior to this during the Qing, well, we all know that the Qing dynasty is not socialism, communism, or a democracy.  It was a monarchy, a system ruled at the top by an emperor.  Of course, we all know that towards the end of the Qing, the real power did not rest in the hands of the ineffective emperors.  Empress Dowager Cixi, for one, ruled the dying Qing dynasty with an iron fist.  Various parts of China ceded to Western nations, Russia, and Japan were ruled by the policies of those occupiers.  So your statement is absolutely false.  When Mao pushed his style of socialism onto the Chinese, all Chinese-Han, Mongol, Hui, Tibetan and the 54 other Chinese ethnicities suffered.  Mao's shoving socialism down the throats of all of Chinese was not enjoyed by them.  You need to enroll in a class of Chinese Studies 101 at a college near you in order to prevent yourself from making such foolish and incorrect statements such as the ones you have just made.

Bottom line, socialism did not come to the Tibetan Chinese, Mongolian Chinese, Han Chinese, Hui Chinese, or any other Chinese in a natural way.  It took decades for the Chinese central government to adjust and fine tune their version of socialism, communism, and free market trading system.  Even today, they are still making changes to their policies.  During the past few decades, many people of the Han and other Chinese ethnicities adjusted to it.  The central government of China along with some of its people, Han, Hui or whatever, are trying to improve the lives of the Tibetan Chinese.  They believe that by improving the economic conditions of the Tibetans, the majority of Tibetan lives will gradually improve.  Freedom of religion is a good thing and all Chinese, including Tibetans, Hui Muslims are given the freedom to practice their religion.  Tibetan or whatever religious monastery won't be bothered as long as they also don't serve as weapon depots!  And no one, I mean no one whether it be Tibetan Buddhists, Han Buddhists, Hui Islamists, Irish Catholics, Italian Catholics, American Mormons, American Baptists, or whatever the heck their religion or ethnicity is, wants to live in squalor and in mud huts.  Just let the Chinese central government do its thing and leave their internal policies alone.  They have their own timetable to accomplish things and don鈥檛 need you and your poor analysis to fu*k them up.

@brainwasher
It's hard for people when they discover that reality is completely diffrent from what they thought. To make the people understand it need a lot of facts, and repeating them a lot of times. The swindle of Western free world is probably the most powerful lie in the world.

@Jigong
You are absolutely true. Western style of media driven democracy is nothing else than a special US way to fool people to believe the government is legitimately serving their interests. When they can't persuade people in elections to vote for their puppets using ugly lies and propaganda, then they rig the elections, if that doesn't work then they kill the opposite candidates, if that doesn't help than they bring democracy falling as bombs from the sky. Hamas election victory is a good proof for it.

I believe the best way to make people immune against western propaganda is to make them see what kind of mass wurders (there is a stringent chain from Korea over Vietnam to Iraq) are ruling these democracies. One piece to open peoples eyes is to expose the lies of the media like anti-cnn.com does it. I think it would be even more effective to make people understand that this "Tibet-propaganda" is nothing special for CNN - they are just used to lie.

Besides exposing the lies of their media I think it's very important to expose the bias of their "human rights" gunboats. These gunboats seem to be full of ethics and moral, which they use to incite bloody civil wars on behalf of their masters. Some decades ago, this propaganda work was done directly by CIA, which I believe is still the masters behind these gunboats.

When the CIA network was partly exposed when operation mockingbird was partly uncovered, they have hidden part of the CIA media control network in these "human rights" NGOs. If you don't know about, have a look on Operation Mockingbird, it's very important proof where western media bias is coming from:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mockingbird

The US government spent more then a billion Dollar a year just for covert propaganda already thirty years ago.

To understand what crimes US government people were used to do just for propaganda reasons, have a look at Operation Northwoods:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

This bloody operation was not realized, but the planning is real and other incidents show that such behaviour was common practice. The most important: Northwoods and Mockingbird are not speculation, but proven with US government documents. What the CIA does nowadays, we don't know exactly, but when we know history, we can better guess what's propaganda nowaday. What I see is that the US backed NGOs - I call them gunboats - do exactly such jobs as were done before by CIA.

But these gunboats have a problem: when acting in concert and all telling similar lies - like it is the case with Tibet campaign - we can unmask the whole network of covert CIA "human rights" gunboats. When unmasked that these NGOs are biaesed without any moral, they run out of credibility and can't attack any more.

So Reporter Without Borders was unmasked here:

http://www.anti-cnn.com/forum/en/thread-1192-1-1.html

Fine, let's try people to make it common knowledge that people know about it. If we manage that, the gunboat "Reporter Without Borders" will sink and whenever there will be a press release from "Reporter Without Borders" in the future people just will laugh. :-)

And then we can look for example at "Human Rights Watch" and will find out, that they have they have the same moral deficit as "Reporter Without Borders" and are as well financed by US government to incite bloody civil wars in other countries. That will sink, too, when people just laugh about this propaganda puppet us the CIA.

And then "Amnesty International". That organisation suffers a similar problem of not being independent. I believe AI will sink to the ground of shame, when somebody will give it a closer look and knock at the sidewall. The same with "Transparency International". All these NGO ethic gunboats becomes ridiculos, if people know the details about it.

That's our idea. We name it critical journalism and freedom of press. A big problem is for us to get the attention we need to spread facts. Western censorship regime stricly harass people who unmask the covert the structures. In Mein Parteibuch we already collected lot's of "funny" facts about these NGOs.

Thanks for your attention, sincerely

Ein Katzenfreund