Sarkozy: Don't Come To Beijing Then...
I am iritated to hear that Mr. Sarkozy has pre-conditioned his visit for BJ's Olympics Opening upon progress in the dialogue between Dalai Larma and Chinese central government. I would just say to him and any French people of the same position - "Please, for the sake of your own good, don't come to Beijing". The reason is very simple: Mr. Sarkozy and the like are not welcome here. They have their own agenda and yet they will not find an audience here in Beijing. I see so much hypocrisy here in French caring so much about freedom in Tiebet. Have you not done your research on the bloody history of the old Tiebet? I challenge anyone to argue against this factual conclusion that today's Tiebet is way better than the old Tiebet, even judged by Western standards.I respect that everybody, including French people, should have the right to express his/her viewpoints and values. I also hope that French people hold the same respect for China's.
China's sovereignty over Tiebet, like Taiwan, is in the core of China's national interest. No Chinese government can survive lossing that over either one of them. That's a fact, and a cold one.
So, Reuters and the like, tell your morally superb president, and anyone of your morally superb citizens, just don't come to the "shitty China". Please, do everybody a favor will you, just don't come…
Andrew Z
Beijing
to azeng
I'm here to read some before I'm off work soon.I just want to say what my colleagues and I talked around lunch time:
"Hay man (Sarkozy), we really hope Chinese Foreign Ministry to tell you directly that you don't need to come to Beijing to attend Olympic Ceremony any more; we know it is not polite to say such words directly; but we do hope you won't come.
"We don't care whether you come or not, but please stop playing such children's tricks any more"
"Chinese care about USA and Russia more than France or UK; as long as American and Russian State Leaders come, we don't care whether Sarkozy will come or not; after all, now more than 80 countries' state leaders or royal families will come, so who care Sarkozy's attitudes."
"They'd better not come; they come to Beijing to attract terrorists, bad for Chinese people's security. "
That's what I hear about this issue.
Regards It is absolutely your right to say so, besides the fact that he was invited to come and not auto-invited. It is like you invite somebody to your home, and that means you him/her and when he/she refuses you say you are an xxxxxxx. But again, it is understandable the attitude of many chinese regarding this issue.
But you should reflect on one point: half of the developed world' leaders won't come for sure: countries like Germany, England, France, probably Italy and Spain, UN secretary, maybe Canada, etc... You should calmly reflect on that and ask yourselves if some of their reasons may be "understandable" or not. This is my suggestion. But your pride and anger is understandable as well I've read the words above,whether Sarkozy will come or not is not a serious issue in China,most Chinese people won't welcome the "GREAT" President Sarkozy's coming,I'm sure~Due to the fact that French media and Sarkozy's unclear attitude,many Chinese people are fed up with Sarkozy...
If most developed countries won't come to Beijing's ceremony,they are making a big mistake,letting their own country suffer great loss in economy~ Not evey country is as poweful as the U.S.,it can seize control of the world's economy,but we can't~~~
Reply 2# Yanyan's post
Those governments do not care about their own people, They send them to die in wars for corporations profit. Do you think those governments mind if their people are wealthy or poor? Nah, as far as they win their elections everything works.To Suanla Tiebet
The problem we have here is that we Chinese, having been kept down by Western powers for centuries, have become too sensitive to the opinions of the outside world, particularly the developed world, i.e. we care too much about what others say. Well we shouldn't. We should just keep focusing on doing our own things. Did the morally superb Westerners cared much about the feelings of the natives when they were colonizing the rest of the world with guns and opium and the like? No. I am not advocating for isolationism; I am simply saying earning Westerners' heard and soul won't give us bread and butter, needless to say peace and security. In my opinion, anyone outside their race (white) will never be viewed as equal even if that someone converts to Christianality. End of the day, it's all about race (I am not a racist but hey, that's just the reality).I foresee that what happened this Spring will have a profound influence upon China's intelligentsia - it is another "China-Soviet idealogical fight" back in early 60's. It is that fight that eventually pulled China away from the Eastern block and ultimately led China to embracing the Western block - still remember the "good old days" with US in 80's? China's intelligentsia rushed out and embrassed anything "Western". This Spring, China's intelligentsia, for the first time, woke up to face this cruel world that, sadly, still functions by the rules of survival. We come to realize that Western civilizations do not want to see a strong China, and nothing will prevent them from doing whatever they could to keep us down, not even if we embrace Western ideaologies and values and even religious belief - well we shouldn't in the first place. Dreams shattered and illusions gone. I'd say that's a good thing.
So, we shouldn't care if Bush or Sarkozy or the like want to come or not. I don't anyway. In May I stopped subscribing for the international channels such as BBC and CNN. I still read Economist and Financial Times but I do so in a critical way as if I am reading People's Daily.
Western media has massively lost its creditability among China's intelligentsia. To Western world, that is probably the most supprising and unwanted thing coming out of this "Spring of 08".
Andrew Z
Beijing "we Chinese, having been kept down by Western powers for centuries" ..........is really over the top. Don't blame others for the non development of China during the last 400 years, find the reasons/mistakes inside your society: inside the confucianism for example, that taught you to read old books rather than to write new ones, ask yourself why such an old-styled, rural and imperial society could last for such a long time, etc.. As a matter of fact and besides what you learned in school, the political, social and economic modernization of China and of other asian countries is strictly related to the so-hated white men. Without this interference in China's history, there may be still an emperor in China and definetely you wouldn't have sent any rocket to the moon. Just make some research and find out how many political advisors from the west China had and still has. In terms of economics, technology, social impact I think the effects are even more obvious.
To Suanla Tiebet
With no doubt what you said is partly true. Western civilization has been doing a lot of good to mankind. Looking back to the history of mankind, Western civilization is arguably the biggest contributor to the modern world. I am not debating that. In fact, it has been a given among Chinese intelligentsia that Western civilization represents the most civilized and most advanced civilization of all.You are also right in saying that western world has contributed a lot to modern China. That, again, I don't intend to argue otherwise. However, I don't expect you to deny all the bad things that western powers have done to and in China (and other developing nations as well). Western civilization has its dark side too - that I don't need to elaborate here.
The cold fact that Chinese intellectuals, particularly those deeply influenced by western cultures and values, are just getting to cope with is that conflict of civilizations and self-interest by nations will always over-shadow the universality of concepts such as rule of law, democracy, freedom and social justice, and that a rising and strong China, even one setting out for democratization and rule of law, will never be perceived as being in the interest of western powers.
Yes China has a lot to improve upon; and yet no one can deny today's China is way better than 30 or 100 years ago. The world must be looked at in perspective and in proportion. That is what the western media have collectively failed to see.
It would be safe to project that China's intellectuals are moving toward "inward-looking" as a result of these series of "soft conflicts"...
Andrew Z
Beijing I agree with your post and I would say, to reply to your statement, that western countries offended China rather than exploiting it. Selling drugs and making a war to continue to do it is simply immoral and many historians are ashamed of that. But I would also stress that part of history is really out of our mind now. At that time, even in Europe, cocaine was considered a good drug who could solve many problems (read Freud) and drugs in general were not considered bad, it was fashionable to consume them. On the other hand I wouldn't forget what westerns did when brought to China all the vaccines and cures (epatitis, etc.). I honestly think that western countries gave back enough to repair their mistakes . Regardless of who comes or who does not come, the 2008 Beijing Olympics are on!:victory:
-Samtom I am reading the same subject in Chinese forum. If Sarkozy can read Chinese, he would know what a bad image he has in China. Sarkozy, you are not welcomed. Please stay at home, if you want to watch Olympics, you can watch TV. Sarkozy really does not care much how chinese see him. He did or said all these just for the purpose of getting more vote among his people. This is part of the show how western democracy works.
Personally, I wish Sarkozy will stay out of China during Olympic. For such a politician, the best reward is disdain. Agree Sarkozy really does not care much how Chinese see him.
And this only show how shallow and narrow he is.
My opinion: France politicians are sinking low generation by generation.
Dialogue with DL
Beijing and DL's representatives are talking again. I seriously doubt such dialogue would lead to any consensus on substantive issues. The reason is very simple: the sovereignty over Tiebet is in the core of China's national interest, upon which Beijing can not afford to compromise. I truly believe that most, if not all, of the western politicians understand that. Politicians are all pragmatists. Thus, it seems to me the only major objective for western politicians such as Sarkozy to make such a big fuss about Tiebet is to gain leverage over China for future negotiations on other matters more "real" to their own countries such as big commercial contracts, further opening for investment of the few areas still protected by China (financial services, car manufacturing, mining, publication, etc.)... [font=Calibri][size=4]To Suala Tibet : [i]“ It is like you invite somebody to your home, and that means you him/her and when he/she refuses you say you are an asshole.”[/i][/size][/font][font=Calibri][size=4][color=blue]Your conception is Wrong![/color][/size][/font]
[font=Calibri][size=4]Here is the procedure by IOC:
Host country issues
invitations to
other countries’ OC (no one else )! It’s up to the OC of each country to invite who They Want.
[/size][/font]
[font=Calibri][size=4]So, it’s clear that China has never invited him or any other big potatoes from outside. Possibly, Chinese government would feel a bit pity if few big potatoes to show up because that’s government concept everywhere.
It doesn’t bother our massive ordinary Chinese at all ! Instead we would feel relax if they don’t
come as we will be happy to tell each other:
less money
to spend on their security etc, that’s our money. Basically, we want to see athletes not them ! [/size][/font]
[font=Calibri][size=4]B.T.W,
Sarkozy
or any other big potato’ s absence to the Game will definitely make their own team disappointed because their role is surely for cheering their own athletes up, not Chinese. [/size][/font] As far as I know, HU gave personally the invitation to Bush at least but if what you said it is true, why getting offended if somebody doeasn't come. August is the usual period for southern europeans to go on vacation so, maybe S. prefers Saint Tropez rather than the smog of BJ.
Who Invites the Dignitaries?
Good question: Who invites dignitaries of other countries? This question was asked by a Chinese reporter on the news briefing of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. According to the MFA's official, the IOC Charter and practice dictates that it is up to the individual Olympics Committee of each country to decide who will be the "dignitaries" of that country. As such, French OC should be the one that issued the invitation to Sarkozy. 1) To be frank, at the beginning of 2008, Chinese government did care who would attend the Opening Ceremony. But after Tibet riot and 5.12 earthquake, now Chinese don't care who will come. We have looked into every country clearly.2) China cares about USA and Russia much more than those European countries; Germany, France, UK, Canada....are not so important to China. So their State Leaders' attitudes have no much influence on China.
3) It is not China which invited these State Leaders; it is the IOC's invitation; these State Leaders just need to answer IOC. They don't need to blackmail China, no meaning.
4) Sarkozy is just a funny president; so Chinese don't need to give too much attention to him. He is more like a clown than a President.
5) Now 90 State Leaders would like to come; USA, Russia, Japan, Australia, Some countries from Middle East....tsome of them are Chinese important partners; some of Chinese important energe/material suppliers....China cares about them.
6) Germany and France and UK just want to get orders from China, so we don't care whether their State Leadres come or not; we have looked into them.
7) As to Pan, UN Secretary, he stayed much of time in China in June and also visited Chinese earthquake; appreciated; South Korean President will come; one person from SK is enough.
........
Actually, after what happened in March, April and May, Chinese looked into many things; Sarkozy comes or not, no influence on China.
We just wish all the athelets to have a good performance in the Games.
Regards Hu invited Kevin Rudd personally; Kevin agreed to come. It is a good news for me. Chinese like Kevin Rudd; he can speak perfect Chinese and is Chinese good friend.
Another man Chinese will be happy to see is Bill Gates; he will come. He's welcome more than thoese State Leaders.
The Bushes will come together, including many family members of Bushes' three generations. Rice will come together with Bushes' family.
Olympic Games are not political events; it is a sports event and a time for friendship and peace.
We welcome people here; but don't be like Sarkozy, it is unwise to blackmail China at this time, no meaning.
Sarkozy really wants to come to Beijing very much; but he knows he can't offend some anti-China French in France; so Sarkozy said those silly words; well, I can uderstand his situation with sympathy.
Regards
Reply 18# Yanyan's post
Seems that French people feel the same sympathy than Chinese people toward him.Poll: Sarkozy's approval rating continues downward trend
[url]http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-07/04/content_8490451.htm[/url]