France seeks explanation from China over alleged travel boycott
[url]http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080530/lf_afp/francechinatourism_080530145545[/url][quote]
France has asked China for an explanation following reports thatBeijing travel agents have been asked to stop promoting trips toFrance, the foreign ministry said Friday.
"We must absolutely get some explanation because it would be worryingif this were confirmed," said foreign ministry spokeswoman PascaleAndreani.
Several Beijing travel agents said Thursday they had received an orderfrom municipal authorities to withdraw trips to France from theircatalogue of tourism destinations.
But an official from the Beijing tourism agency told AFP that no suchorder had been given and that it had "simply reminded Chinese touriststo be careful about their security."
The foreign ministry said that despite the statement from the Beijingtourism agency, France was still seeking "more specific information."
Relations between France and China soured last month over the chaoticOlympic torch relay through Paris that was disrupted by human rightsand pro-Tibet protesters.
President Nicolas Sarkozy has also said he may boycott the August 8 opening ceremony of the Beijing Olympics over Tibet.
France is the most popular European holiday destination for Chinesetourists, with around 700,000 Chinese flocking to the country last year.
[/quote]
i will not go to Frence and German , Uk
nobody asks me to do that, but i don't like this three countries now. I wanted go to France many years, but now I feel this money should use for our country especially for Sichuan earth quake, there people need this money. I am very happy Chinese now all unprecedented unite:handshake :handshake :handshake I, too, have always wanted to visit Paris...but am reconsidering right now. I can't look at the Eiffel Tower without being reminded of the banner they put up there. Dalai Lama or 1.3 billion Chinese people( 56 ethnic groups), French gov has to choose either. President Nicolas Sarkozy has also said he may boycott the August 8 opening ceremony of the Beijing Olympics over Tibet.We Chinese may also boycott France, anything could be.
Let Dalai visit France 1.3 billions times.
Sarkozy: Boycotting Beijing Olympic not right way
[url]http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-05/31/content_8287148.htm[/url][quote]
VIENNA, May 30 (Xinhua) -- French President Nicolas Sarkozy, who on an official visit to Austria, said Friday boycotting the Beijing Olympic 2008 was not the right way.
At a press conference held here, Sarkozy said the forthcoming Beijing Olympic Games is a "very serious" theme and people should promote an international dialogue with the political leadership in Beijing instead of easily boycotting this big international sport event.
Austrian Federal Chancellor Alfred Gusenbauer said "I basically do not think it is a good idea to boycott Olympics."
During Sarkozy's visit, he discussed with Austrian leaders the problem of European integration, the use and exploitation of nuclear energy as well as some other internal and international affairs.
[/quote] It shows how naive French politicians are
they are expecting Chinese to be friendly with then after befriend Dalai Lama [quote]Original posted by [i]Davo[/i] at 31-5-2008 00:09 [url=http://www.anti-cnn.com/forum/en/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=16172&ptid=2031][img]http://www.anti-cnn.com/forum/en/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
[url=http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080530/lf_afp/francechinatourism_080530145545]http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080530/lf_afp/francechinatourism_080530145545[/url]
[/quote]
What's with the "several Beijing travel agents" who allegedly received and executed this order? How does the French foreign ministry come to know about this allegation? Chinese people reported it to France? Or the travel agents told some Westerners, "No, no trips to France now..."
This article and the French Foreign Ministry actions seem rather fishy to me.
France doesn't need help to become less popular in the eyes of Chinese.
See the thread: [b]Poll: France plunges in popularity rating[/b]
[url=http://www.anti-cnn.com/forum/en/viewthread.php?tid=1199&highlight=france]www.anti-cnn.com/forum/en/viewthread.php?tid=1199&highlight=france[/url]
Then there's the "pro-Tibet" reference in the article...
[quote]Relations between France and China soured last month over thechaoticOlympic torch relay through Paris that was disrupted by humanrightsand pro-Tibet protesters.[/quote]
What's the deal with this 'pro-Tibet' protesters nonsense in the Western media? It's such a ridiculous Western media term. So if the "Free [sic] Tibet" movement is "pro-Tibet", who is anti-Tibet? Those who don't want it to separate from China? Those who don't want it to modernize or have the peoples' standard of living or life expectancy increase, as it has since the Dalai Lama fled and the feudal system was toppled?
Watch out for corporate media word-twisting!
[[i] Last edited by shaomaike at 4-6-2008 10:34 [/i]]
answer of a Frenchman
"they are expecting Chinese to be friendly with then after befriend Dalai Lama"You know, diplomacy is the art of making concessions ; if every tiny event like the flame-in-paris affair should result in the wave of hatred we saw in china, we'd be in for a lot of wars... is that what you chinese people want? war?
"
What's with the "several Beijing travel agents" who allegedly received and executed this order? How does the French foreign ministry come to know about this allegation? Chinese people reported it to France? Or the travel agents told some Westerners, "No, no trips to France now..."
This article and the French Foreign Ministry actions seem rather fishy to me."
well in france, unlike China, the government doesn't need to make up stories, for it doesn'tfear to "lose face", and it doesnt contorol themedias either. Well, you're chinese, you believe the chinese propaganda, it's your right.
Than, about the flame event, all is not black and white; Youu guyz have focused mainly on Jin Jin (yeah, how maudlin it was, wasn't it), but have you seen this video? :
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GPl6bMgEoc[/url]
unlike the attack on jin jin, which was done by some extremists, the torch the french judoka was blown out by a chinese OFFICIAL.
Finally, the proportion of the chinese reaction is unbelievable. And aparently it's not going to stop . According to Le Figaro ([url]http://www.lefigaro.fr/sport/2008/07/25/02001-20080725ARTFIG00001--pekin-la-france-est-toujours-diabolisee-.php[/url])
which says : "it's the same catchphrase in all embassies in china. As soon as the Olympic Games are over, France will be wiped out of China" ... sounds great..
Thank you all for your kindness and your desire for "mutual understanding"... I don't understand why the Chinese reacted so vehemently against the French. Ok I understand that the flame going out was out of line but its a part of the freedom to protest. If you want to assign blame, assign it to that group of people who extinguished the flame, not to an entire country, especially France.
There are many friendly Chinese people and I'm sure that they would definitely get along with the very open-minded French people. So you need to stop listening to Xinhua and CCTV and make your own opinion about a country not by its political opinion but by how you find its people, culture, and cuisine (its excellent). Its a gorgeous country, and also the most visited one; by the way, they love Chinese food!
The Chinese would have virtually no problems in France, trust me I'm American and even when I was there they were cool (though busy Paris can be a little mean, but thats Paris:o). I remember Lyosalfe too said somewhere else, "Why on earth has France become the scapegoat." I can see why all of you don't understand why the Chinese reacted so angrily to the Olympic torch relay fiasco in London, France, etc. I'll try to explain some reasons behind this outrage, and I do this not to justify it but to provide some means for mutual understanding.
Other countries may consider hosting the Olympics as a major nuisance, and there is quite some grumbling from the citizens when their city/country is awarded the Olympics. After all, hosting the Olympics is a major burden on the government finances, and it causes huge inconveniences for the residents of the city. As for China, it is its first time ever to host the Olympics, and the Chinese have always considered hosting the Olympics very prestigious and thought of it as a great opportunity to showcase the might of their nation. When Beijing won its bid in 2001, an estimated 200,000 overjoyed Chinese converged on Tiananmen Square to celebrate "the triumph of the motherland." China has arguably yearned the hardest for this right, and it has spent ~$65,000,000,000 (~5 times the cost for Athens 2004) on the Olympics and has very high expectations for it. The Chinese see the hosting of the Olympics as China's "coming out party," or demonstration of China's rise and emergence into the world as a political and economical great power. This was crucial, because China would finally be seen as an equal after suffering humiliation under European colonialism and Japanese invasion in the 1800-1900s. So now you can see that the Chinese take high offense to anything that obstructs or mars their chance to show their nation's prowess.
The Olympic torch relay comes to Paris and there's all this riot over it. About the extinguishing of the torch, that was done only by the Chinese officials; the protesters never succeeded in doing that themselves. The violent demonstrations were aired in China eventually, but I think the Chinese media only blamed the Tibetan separatists for sabotaging the torch relay. But Chinese people still learned that the French were also involved in the sabotaging of the torch relay. They condemned the French for ruining China's "coming out party" and staged demonstrations in front of Carrefour in retaliation. Of course, Sarkozy's threat to boycott the Olympics fueled the Chinese anger.
A lot of the problems lie in how each party treated the torch relay. The French may have only associated the torch relay with the CCP, and they may have felt that they were only protesting against the Chinese government. But the Chinese took that as France's anti-China/anti-Chinese rally, which is understandable, because the Chinese people themselves are very invested in the Olympics and want it to be perfect. As I explained earlier, they would love to see their nation shine by hosting the Olympics, and they are very proud of their country. What the French did insulted their pride and hurt them very much. And unfortunate consequences ensued.
I don't think it a good thing that "as soon as the Olympic Games are over, France will be wiped out of China." I don't find that to be a healthy development. I believe in good Franco-Chinese relations.
As for visiting France, I'd like to do that sometime in the future as well if I ever get a chance to visit Europe. I've heard so many good things about France and it's such a fascinating place. I'm hearing about Chinese tourists being harrassed and Tibetan flags being hung in malls, but I'm inclined to believe that those are not common occurrences. @Lyosalfe
The Dalai Lama is not a person you need to have diplomacy with because he has little political power or any power at all. Inviting him is just a way to upset China and to get support from France people because the average bloke likes him. Sarkozy is not the average president he just wants to be loved by the people and will do anything to achieve that, at least that is his reputation in my country. So not politics but personal PR of your president I think.
@Tiresius
Well just think about it from a Chinese point of view... Chinese have never in the whole history done anything bad to France and now the Chinese are having their party and France is trying to disrupt it. Would you not feel offended? Yes it might be a small group but if even the president is thinking of boycotting the Olympics it can be very insulting.
I have heard some stories of racial violence against Chinese in France and the UK. It has becoming a bigger and bigger problem in the last years. So the situation is not that good. I know a story where a Chinese guy was attacked (in Paris) and his friends called ambulance. 5 HOURS!!! later the ambulance come and the boy died in vane. The attack was racial and the arriving of the ambulance is something we can only guess the reason...
@Davo
Good analysis. Ronald I never heard of any such attack and I've been in Paris since January. I have heard of a Jewish youth being attacked, which was terrifying but reported nationwide. Any such attack on a Chinese youth would have garnered national attention, that I know for sure.
Davo, bravo on the explanation. Thanks! Tiresius, the case I described happened about 1 year ago I think. If I remember correctly the Chinese where walking the street and a group of African and Muslim youngsters started to say racial things against the Chinese. Then a Chinese guy reacted and they got into a fight. In the end he got stabbed like 5 times. This is the only story I know from France. But I did hear that in the UK the problem is much bigger. I know somebody who studied in Leicester and told me stories about Chinese getting attacked by English. They also say the police did nothing about it. I don't know how much it is true because I almost can't imagen the police doesn't do anything but this is what they say. @Ronald
>the Dalai Lama is a symbol ; and, whether is it justified or not, the dalai lama has an aura of peace and justice around him. I'm aware this might be exagerated ; maybe the press "got a crush" on the dalai lama jsut like it had a crush on obama lol - yet he is a symbol, and the french hold symbols in great esteem. That's aprt of our history i guess. So there's no way the French president could ever oppose to the dalai lama. My point is, it is not meant to upset China. It just can't be otherwise. Or else sarkozy 's carreer would come to an end.
>about the agression of a chinese : this is certainly not political. Agressions happen all the time in every country, and i dont think the chinese are the most exposed in france. I've never heard of particular anti chinese agressions. Racism in France in fact affects mainly blacks and arabs, not asians. Plus almost all of the french are unable to distinguish between a chinese, a japanese, a korean or a thai..; so how would you want them to attack a chinese person for political reasons?
there must be anti asians racists, but that's the lot of the whole mankind :( Ronald,
the english have strange habits sometimes: I remember when I studied there they had the Italian dayor Spanish or French, where they basically, drunk, tried to find somebody of those nationalities to beat. It is just part of their having fun. Just be prepared and respond appropriately but they are not bad guys... Lyosafe, If the French hold symbols as great esteem then why you ban the biggest Muslim symbol? It is not aloud to wear the head cover in school.
I know the president has no other option then to meet the DL because the French people want him to. But then you also should not be surprised when other feel insulted.
Suanla, I am lucky i am white (even for white people :lol ) so I will not get in trouble with them. I know some nice people there so I know they are not all bad. But I know some Asian people who got discriminated a lot there, even Chinese discriminate each other from time to time.
Where in the UK did you study? My friend was in Leicester a old little town with a lot of Indian people living there. I heard that the city there was particularly famous for being dangerous. But except one time I never needed to fear my wallet or more. @ Davo
" I don't find that to be a healthy development. I believe in good Franco-Chinese relations."
Thanks for your encouraging vision of things. Unfortunately, the situation is getting worse. The "wiping out" of France has taken a new step : the chinese government has suspended all french investments in beijing for at least three months ... :/ @Ronald
about the Muslim scarf ; it a symbol, a religious symbol. The law banning from school was very controversial in France too. But most people think it is right because it protects our culture of laicity. everybody may practice the faith they want. Just don't show it too much when you're in a public school. The ban was not only on muslim scraves, but also on chirstian big crosses and jewish kippa. [quote]Original posted by [i]suanlaTibet[/i] at 2008-7-28 17:41 [url=http://www.anti-cnn.com/forum/en/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=19385&ptid=2031][img]http://www.anti-cnn.com/forum/en/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
the english have strange habits sometimes: I remember when I studiedthere they had the Italian dayor Spanish or French, where theybasically, drunk, tried to find somebody of those nationalities tobeat. It is just part of their having fun. Just be prepared and respondappropriately but they are not bad guys...[/quote]
"They're not bad guys...They just like to beat up random foreigners for fun." Are you listening to yourself?:L
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