Help Us To Understand You
First of all let me say that I love China. I have lived in China before and have travelled all over the country. I have nothing but good impressions of China and Chinese people and will always tell people that its my favourite country to travel in. My Chinese friends are some of the best people I have ever come across and could not imagine being treated better in any country than I was in China. Also Ilove Chinese history, culture and movies. I love Lu Xun, Laozi, Zhuangzi, Kang Youwei, Lin Yu Tang, Li Bai and more. China has so much to offer the world and I believe that a lot of traditional Chinese thought has not been superseded by Western thought. The world must learn that China will have a lot to offer the world again in the future but it is still just getting back on its feet after 150 years of bloodshed, mismanagement, war and poverty. I plan to return to China soon to study Chinese as I feel I will regret it in my life if I don't.I l
So it really saddens me that I have heard from some of my Western friends living in China that the atmosphere and reception has changed in the last month.They have found that people have been less friendly to them and taxi drivers are not interested in have conversation with Western people these days. An american man was attacked violently outside Carrefour in Hunan [url=http://shanghaiist.com/2008/04/22/attack_on_an_american_volunteer.php]http://shanghaiist.com/2008/04/22/attack_on_an_american_volunteer.php[/url]
I understand that this is a difficult time for Chinese people and that many people are still in shock. I also think that the Western media has often been unfair. However China's best asset is the friendliness and hospitality of its people. It really is! I would hate for this to change. China's best chance of changing people's hearts and minds is to show them the real China in the coming Olympics. Confucius said 'When anger rises, think of the consequences'.
Furthermore I would like to add that most people at least in my country England, don't hate Chinese people. Most simply do not care or they do not know. Their opinions are easily swayed as we get little in the way of information on China. Before I came to China, my vision was of the 70's, Mao and the Cultural revolution. Any negativity could be blamed on the media but that is not the whole of the equation. I really think Beijing does a bad job of representing itself, especially in a way that Westerners can identify, sympathise and react to. Every time there is an issue with China the reaction from the foreign ministry is always defensive, sometimes agressive and we an continuously told that 'its an internal issue'. No room for discussion or debate and no effort at transparency. This just does not cut it in the so much of the rest of the world were discussion and press conferences have been the medium for expressing your case. Not that Chinese should feel the need to kowtow to the West but if you want to be understood you must do it in a way that we can recognise and sympathise with. In a Guardian article today apparently a Beijing official expressed the same opinion
[i]"We need to be more open and transparent. We need to respond more quickly. The usual way we react when we are criticised is to be defensive and say nothing. This is a bad habit," one official said. In the run-up to the Olympics, China planned to have prepared responses ready if issues such as Darfur, human rights, Burma, arms sales, or environmental problems suddenly reignited, he said.
[/i]
All across the Western newspapers we read quotes from this foreign minister Jiang Yu and the always seem agressive and defensive to an extreme. She seems like such a tough character and does not seem like the right person to put China's case to the world. It would seem she has done a bad job as public relations between China and the outside are at an all time low. In the instance of the Tibet riots, so much more could have been done to smooth things over. China has a legitmate claim to Tibet although there is a lot of historical ambiguity of the matter. If the foreign ministry chaired a proper press conference and expressed how much blood was shed by innocent Chinese and answered questions from the press then people's impression of China would change. The Dalai Lama has excellent PR and is definitely winning any PR battle with the PRC. China has changed from Mao's China but the way China deals with rest of the world it is difficult for us to get that impression.
At the moment I want to write an article about why not to boycott the olympics. I am finding it extremely hard to find places where I can find articulate Chinese viewpoints on affairs. To much of the Chinese response has been along the lines of 'DALAI LAMA DIE, ALL THOSE WHO OPPOSE CHINA @ING DIE' and similar on youtube. I can find translated stuff on [url=http://www.globalvoicesonline.org/]http://www.globalvoicesonline.org/[/url] and [url=http://zonaeuropa.com/weblog.htm]http://zonaeuropa.com/weblog.htm[/url] but it is really difficult for us who want to try and understand China to do it. Why are not more articulate overseas Chinese writing articles to the Western press? Why are there not more websites were we can have rational discussion with Chinese people?
In 1996 there was a book released in China named 'China Can Say No' about how China does not need the rest of the world and was responsible for a lot of overly nationalistic sentiment. Is this really what China wants now? A repeat of the Qing dynasty when China turned its back to the rest of the world resulting in its downfall? Or a repeat of the Ming where Zhenge He's mighty fleet was destroyed because scholars thought it was worthless to have relationships with barbarians? Is China really condemned to continuously repeat the same mistakes in its history? Lets engage, let people know the real China and do it through a medium they can understand and appreciate. Help us to understand you.
Welcome!
Firstly, I would say thank you for your constructive suggestions. As I said many times before, any people who want to come and communicate with us is our friend, not to mention you already visited China and knew a lot about Chinese. I hope your post can really initiate a rational dialogue. But as a Chinese saying, "there's all kinds of birds in a big forest." So it's very possible that you will still see a lot of irrational mud-slinging. Although I don't like western medias very much, there's one thing we should learn from them, simply ignoring those unfavored comments.I'm also a fan of Lao Tzu and his Tao and Li Bai's poems so I think we could communicate something about this if you don't mind. In doing so, maybe I can also learn something refreshing from you.
Again, thank you and wish you have a nice time here!
Hi pugwell
I think you are the person reall want to communicate,I respect your opinion.You seems like comprehensive about the history of China.Let me tell you what we really think about.
Since you know about the downfall of Qing dynasty,do you know what 1840-1949 means to us?An indelible humiliation about being invaded and being slaveried were lasting so long time to us.It's an everlasting tender sopt for us.That's why we are so sensitive with external threaten.We don't want to repeat the humiliating history,and we understood geting behind will geting bullied.So we must be stronger and stronger to guardance our country and when the external pressure comes,we'll geting more united.
I hope you can understand.
Thanks
[[i] Last edited by LEE at 25-4-2008 11:37 [/i]] I appreciate that. I know that stabilty and the mandate of heaven has been of so much importance to China since Kongzi, to the Tang, through the San Guo period and right now today. But if China is only to focus on its own strength and not to engage with the world in the right manner then I fear that the same mistakes could be made again. I think we were always low-pitched.Such as American blowed up our embassy in Yugoslavia,American's scout stricked our plane in our territory.We performed very contrelled.
Personally,I assume our gov was too transigent,not strong enough in some pricipal problems some time.
Try to understand a different culture.
Before making any judgment, we should understand each other. I personally believe the different alttitude about external intervene came from different cultures.Since you already knew many of Chinese history , it makes things much easier. Let's start from Zhenge He's mighty fleet. They were stopped not beacuse of the discrimination of local babarians. The real reason is it actually overburdened the financial budget of central government. So I'm wondering why the same thing could become a great opportunity of wealth for european countries. What made them thought of trading slaves and looting treasures instead of simply keeping fair trade and exchanging gifts like Zhenge He's mighty fleet did before? Please understand I'm not making moral judgment here, just want to learn its derivation in western culture.
[[i] Last edited by phoenix77 at 25-4-2008 11:44 [/i]]
About LEE's reply
Maybe it seems too maundering for westerners to repeat our humiliating history. But please try to think about it from this way: since the two Opium Wars, most of intervention from west means preaching, looting, invading and even killing in name of good excuses. So when the same group of countries tried to intervene again, it's not suprising that the first thought came out from our mind is: what do they want this time? Well, it's already an instinctive reaction.[[i] Last edited by phoenix77 at 25-4-2008 12:16 [/i]] Maybe the main part of my post is being overlooked. I want to write an article on not boycotting the olympics and it is very hard to find articulate essay and articles by Chinese people to quote or for imformation. Why is this? Its often repeated that Chinese feel misunderstood but it is very hard to find sources to understand Chinese people.
Secondly I think that Jiang Yu has done a bad job in representing China. With a different approach there could have been more mutual understanding and trust. If China was a company she would have lost her job. China has so much to offer and has legitimate arguments to make but instead just always become defensive and repeats the party line. This invites suspicion and allows misunderstanding. If China and the CCP spent more time on its image and presented itself in a way Western people could understand, impressions of China could be different.
Thirdly I am worried that there are people in China who want to block of the rest of the world again. Maybe like the book they think China doesnt need the outside world. This could be a terrible mistake and history could repeat itself again.
Sorry if my information about Zheng He was incorrect. I got most of it from Zhang Yimou's documentary. So you can blame him. More important question is why does Zhang Yimou not make good movies like he used to? What a sell out! [quote]Original posted by [i]phoenix77[/i] at 25-4-2008 12:14 [url=http://www.anti-cnn.com/forum/en/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=8026&ptid=1239][img]http://www.anti-cnn.com/forum/en/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
Maybe it seems too maundering for westerners to repeat our humiliating history. But please try to think about it from this way: since the two Opium Wars, most of intervention from west means preachin ... [/quote]
Has western intervention always been bad??
How about the flying tigers in WW2 who helped get vital supplies to help China fight the Japanese. The world has changed since then, the Britain who fought the Opium Wars does not exist anymore. Hi pugwell
If most of Westerners like you, it would have been easier to communicate. You said why Chinese government didn't PR well. I think the main problem is who believe what chinese government tell? I think you may believe it because you have been to China. Your media will not because they think the communist party propaganda machine is running not the communication. Any word from chinese government is doubtful and can not be trusted. At such kind of atmosphere, is it possible to dialogue? On the other hand, every single word that Dalai said is the truth and no one in West doubts about it.
Do you think Western Media will give a space to let Chinese government to tell the truth? China has the English Website to introduce everything, do you think any westerner wants to go there to find the truth? No, I don't think. Because they thought it's the devil propaganda of communist.
So I think the first thing should be done is at the western side to change their attitude toward China. Stop media distortion. [quote]Original posted by [i]pugwall[/i] at 25-4-2008 12:34 [url=http://www.anti-cnn.com/forum/en/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=8030&ptid=1239][img]http://www.anti-cnn.com/forum/en/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
Maybe the main part of my post is being overlooked. I want to write an article on not boycotting the olympics and it is very hard to find articulate essay and articles by Chinese people to quote or fo ... [/quote]
Well,pugwall,my freind.I just answered your question about what we think.And I agree with you we shouldn't close the door to the world.As far as our speaker's performace,I think she's statement is appropriate,at least in Chinese.
And I guess you have understood the reason of our reaction,as I and pheonix77 said.Right?:) [quote]Thirdly I am worried that there are people in China who want to block of the rest of the world again. Maybe like the book they think China doesnt need the outside world. This could be a terrible mistake and history could repeat itself again. [/quote]
Actually your worry is no necessary. China is now open to world, there is no road backward. I don't think you have decoded the right information from the book. [quote]Thirdly I am worried that there are people in China who want to block of the rest of the world again. Maybe like the book they think China doesnt need the outside world. This could be a terrible mistake and history could repeat itself again. [/quote]
Actually your worry is no necessary. China is now open to world, there is no road backward. I don't think you have decoded the right information from the book. [quote]Original posted by [i]dingdongming[/i] at 25-4-2008 12:44 [url=http://www.anti-cnn.com/forum/en/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=8033&ptid=1239][img]http://www.anti-cnn.com/forum/en/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
Hi pugwell
If most of Westerners like you, it would have been easier to communicate. You said why Chinese government didn't PR well. I think the main problem is who believe what chinese government ... [/quote]
I don't agree with that sorry. At least you have to make your case and be willing to discuss it if you want a chance to be able to discuss with people. That is the way the news works in the West. If you don't care about their opinion then that is fine but obviously people in China do care. Pretty much every Western commentator with vested interest in China and do like China and are generally supportive of China have said the same thing. Even apparently some CCP officials are saying that China needs to change its approach:
"We need to be more open and transparent. We need to respond more quickly. The usual way we react when we are criticised is to be defensive and say nothing. This is a bad habit," one official said. In the run-up to the Olympics, China planned to have prepared responses ready if issues such as Darfur, human rights, Burma, arms sales, or environmental problems suddenly reignited, he said.
[url=http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/simon_tisdall/2008/04/awakening_the_dragon.html]http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/simon_tisdall/2008/04/awakening_the_dragon.html[/url] Thank you for your suggestions. They sounds quite reasonable and helpful. I feel sorry for those foreign people in China now who are mistreated. I don't think Chinese people hate the westerners. We are just too shocked and need some time to recover. I guess those who are manipulating the recent affairs must be laughing when they see this result of tension between people in China. It is very bad fort the Olympic.
We don't want to turn our back to the world and lock the door again. That's why the government does not take any action. We are paying a lot to open up and we will not regress, but now there are other people/countries who are trying to force us to so. I believe the government will not change the open policy, but our feeling is really hurt.
Take France for example, in my mind until 1 month ago, it is such a friendly nation to China. But when seeing the video of the free-Tibet protest during the torch relay in Paris and listen to Chinese there to tell us that over 99% of thousands of people in the protest was French and their attitude was very bad toward Chinese, I was astonished. It is kind of feeling of being betrayed. If you tell me they are Korean, I will not surprise but they are French. Paris is the only city which hang the flag of anti-olympic in the city hall and now Dalai became its honored citizen. Just unbelievable. So the anti-French sentiment is so strong now. I personally think I am rational and I do have a couple of French friends. I would not say they hate Chinese, but even I am confused about the opinion towards Chinese of the majority of French people.
No doubt that the friendship between people is hurt. People are emotional and even though we know we are tricked, as long as distrust did happen, it takes time to recover and eliminate the negative impact. I think at this moment, trying to calm down is the most urgent. Whether the friendship can recover also depends on the attitude of the western countries because you can understand, to Chinese if you don't offend me, you are my friend.
The foreign minister, haha, I would say she is tough just by first glance:) Your suggestion of the press after the Tibet riot is pretty good I think. They are so used to suppress information like this. One reason I can explain is that the most important thing in China, is not human right, nor economy, but the stability of the whole society. So they don't want to let any news harm the stability to catch people's attention. I think it is also something Chinese people complaint about the media the most.
The other things is China is very sensitive to problems linked with sovereignty. When they claim it to be "internal affairs", it actually means you are challenging my sovereignty. This is because of the history with blood and tears for almost 150 years. Ideas to split China like free Tibet not only offend the central government but all the Chinese people. And when we think it's our internal affair, I think the most frank way I will say it is "it's none of your business". I guess the government are using similar sentences without any explanation. You are right . I think to Chinese it is very nature that since I tell you it's my own business, I don't need to explain to you. But that is not the westerners way to think. And if we want to be understood, this probably need to be changed. But this cannot be controlled by us. The naming of ministers depends on the government and sometimes, I think it is not they don't want to do it, but the current way to do it is corresponding to special policy, I guess.
A subtle reason might be that the style of diploma of China is very restrict and precise. Every single word you said represent the government. This might be different from the west. Western countries usually have multi-party and they can speak their own words regardless of the opinion of the government. Like the French president just said that Pair's mayor did not represent the French government. Should we believe him? Anyway, it is impossible in China and people say things with extreme caution especially in international affairs. And in addition, you know Chinese are usually very careful and we usually don't say things that is not a hundred percent sure. I can imagine they prepare response in advance because they have to unify. That might be a culture problem. I don't know how you feel about what the French president's explanation that Paris does not equal to France. To me, it's hard to believe. And if different officials in the Chinese government say something totally different, I will think they are lying.
It is very sad that people's attention is shifted to DALAI and Tibet when the Olympic is so close. The best thing for Chinese to do is to calm down, be friendly again and make a nice atmosphere for the Olympic. Thank you, friend from England, to remind us and please believe that we will not turn back and will try our best to keep open and friendly to the whole world. But our feeling is really hurt and we need some time to recover even though we have no much time left before the game.
To write an article about why not to boycott the Olympic is a great idea. There is some information in the Chinese forum of this site and maybe we Chinese here can try to do some translation so that it can be used. That will be the most effective way to tell people the truth and do good to China. Thank you again.
[[i] Last edited by kateS at 25-4-2008 13:07 [/i]] [quote]Original posted by [i]pugwall[/i] at 25-4-2008 12:53 [url=http://www.anti-cnn.com/forum/en/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=8043&ptid=1239][img]http://www.anti-cnn.com/forum/en/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
I don't agree with that sorry. At least you have to make your case and be willing to discuss it if you want a chance to be able to discuss with people. That is the way the news works in the West. ... [/quote]
pugwell,China is on his way.give us more time,ok?:) :) Thanks Kate S excellent reply. I really think that China has so much to offer the world and if things calm down now the China has a great opportunity to change peoples minds come the olympics.Every time I come back to China and see people taking back their culture (I noticed there are now people giving lectures and TV shows on Kongzi and Laozi) again it makes me feel so happy. If people get to read Chinese history especially the last 50 years and understand how far China has come and also that it is moving in the right direction then they will get more perspective.
The question remains though where can we get proper information on China. I read pretty much every article I can find and look for translations but its hard to find a real Chinese voice. I have little or no time for China daily or Xinhua and if I want English content from Zaobao from Singapore I must pay. Opinions on here are fine but where are the properly written articles with links and articulated opinions? You must fight with words, protesting in the street is ok but often gets misunderstood as just anger.
We keep getting told that we don't understand China but how can we? We can't get information and the government don't want to make proper discussion or approach anything with charm. Thats why I say help us to understand you. Most people don't hate China, they just don't know or mostly don't care.
Reply 8# pugwall's post
I'm sorry if my words are misleading. Here I emphasize again that I'm not making moral judgment. And I totally agree with you that we need a better way of PR and our government did very bad on this. But I don't think the prolem is we wanted to close the door again. Actually, we do want to let you understand us but we don't know how. I think the reason lies in the cultual difference. Once we can understand you and western culture better, we would do a much better job to help you understand us.I personally agree with you that Zhang Yimou's movie is worse than before. I don't know why. Maybe he is already famous enough and just want to earn more money now.
[[i] Last edited by phoenix77 at 25-4-2008 13:27 [/i]] [quote]Original posted by [i]pugwall[/i] at 25-4-2008 12:53 [url=http://www.anti-cnn.com/forum/en/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=8043&ptid=1239][img]http://www.anti-cnn.com/forum/en/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
I don't agree with that sorry. At least you have to make your case and be willing to discuss it if you want a chance to be able to discuss with people. That is the way the news works in the West. ... [/quote]
I think I agrees with you to be more open and communicate and that's why this website exists. That's why we are talking here. And also i have seen some actions have been taken by our government for them to dialoge with Westerners. When you look at the Xinhuanet, you will find lots of videos and pictures. But such kind of talk will not win any trust from Western media, the reaction from Western media is it's the communist propaganda. China is really trying to build Trust to communicate. And are Westerners willing to listen the voice from other side?
We are blamed to be brainwashed by Westerners if we didn't agree Westerner's idea as we tried to voice out. We try to be open and talk and how about Westerners, really willing to listen our opinion? I think it may take long time unless they come to Ch
[[i] Last edited by dingdongming at 25-4-2008 13:25 [/i]] What kind of opinions do you think might be helpful in an article to support the Olympic? I guess our Chinese brain is now occupied with "why boycott the Olympic" and "why not boycott Carrerfour", things like that...not "why not boycott Olympic":lol
So if you can give some hint and clue, we might be able to provide more detailed information.