Why Chinese do not make democracy and human rights big topics?
Hello,I have a question and suggestion for my Chinese readers here:
Why not make human rights, press freedom and democracy big topics from Chinese point of view?
I like the idea of human rights, think that the idea of human rights describe a hope for a better living of the people and I think that many people in the world and probably in China, too, like the idea. I wonder, why the oficial China seems to be so passive in this international discussion and I really would appreciate a more forwarding role of China in this discussion. I believe, China might be proud of it's practices of good govermnment, their way to make a better living people possible and their way to protect their people against black propaganda like we witness it now in the transatlantic Tibet campaign.
So why not talk about democracy? I think photos like this [url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/pantufla/114081154/][color=Red]from Aleksandar Vodevic[/color][/url] may be a good start an international discussion on topics like democracy, freedom and human rights:
[img]http://www.mein-parteibuch.com/wiki/images/thumb/4/4e/Democracy_will_come_to_you.jpg/250px-Democracy_will_come_to_you.jpg[/img]
I think, the best way to immunize people against brutal coordinated attacks with black propaganda like we just saw it on Tibet province is to open their eyes in advance. When China opens the eyes of their own people, I hope, they might open the eyes of Western people, too, and make them help to come to a better living. That's why I appreciate this forum a lot.
In the west I see a big problem: nice ideas like human rights, press freedom and democracy were hijacked by a bunch of people thinking only for their own faith. They have organizations like NED, HRW and RSF financed by the US government and acting as CIAs gunboats to give legitimation to commit really ugly crimes like attack wars and bloody civil wars.
See here an example of what NATO engagement in the name of human rights means in reality:
[url]http://worldivided.com/2008/04/10/kosovo-leaders-kidnapped-serbs-and-sold-their-organs-un-pressured-not-to-prosecute-them/[/url]
I regret that China is not more actively promoting human rights, like they really are, and not what the cynical covert CIA dog "Human Rights Watch" tells the people about it. Why to let such CIA backed organizations the moral supremacy to define, what human Rights are? See here in this movie how the US government uses human rights:
[url]http://www.leadingtowar.com/[/url]
I would appreciate many more Chinese reports like these:
[url]http://www.mein-parteibuch.org/blog/human-rights-record-of-united-states-in-2007/[/url]
As I see, Russian government started to act in this way, too, they will found a Russian-funded institute on human rights and democracy in Brussels, Europe:
[url]http://en.rian.ru/russia/20071106/86726246.html[/url]
Guess what? The people in Western governments are not really happy with this institution . The don't like to loose their possibility to control the definition about, what human rights, freedom and democracy is, because it may break their propaganda of the moral superiority of the west.
So, I would just e happy, if some Chinese people may explain me, if China plans to do some more in this moral defition fields. I would appreciate it and I'm sure other Western people would appreciate it. I would be happy, if this post would be translated to Chinese and forwarded to Chinese people and look very much forward to answers.
Beste regards
Ein Katzenfreund My viewpoint below:
[url]http://www.anti-cnn.com/forum/en/thread-1057-1-1.html[/url]
We had stopped thinking capitalism evil for 30 years,but you still think communism evil now.
Differences in political systems as well as policies adopted don't affect the people living there.
Try to respect us as we respect you! The Chinese people and government hold the same standpoint against splittism.
So the "free Tibet" slogan is the worst one you use ,1.3 billion Chinese people will be you enemies.
I don't like the picture you posted, don't be so aggressive. We love peace and against wars, but don't forget that the PLA never lose out a single war after the establishment of the PRC.
Reply 1# Katzenfreund's post
"human rights, press freedom and democracy" have already been big topics in China, just not in the form you hope.It's because our form of solving the "human rights, press freedom and democracy" problem is against the interest of some westerners and western groups, that they slander and tell lies and cheat the western people with their massive biased or even faked coverages. About democracy, I want to say something.First, I don't think democracy is something perfect. Bush became the predident but won less votes than Gore. Whether the democracy is good or not depend on the situation of the country, the democratic Indian government is ineffective compare with Chinese. And in China, there is a large population of peasants who were not well educated, they can hardly make right decisions on some critical issues. But with the education condition improving, there will be more democratic in the future. ...I'm really tired of talking these things. Do you westerners has anything new to talk about?
Chinese used to welcome these things, but not now. We're disappointed with WESTERN democracy after 1989 and now we're going on a way of our own. Though my english is not good ,however, i'll do my best to describe my opinion in english clear.
Thank u Ein Katzenfreund.There will be fine if more and more westerners come here to have a place to discuss with easterners.THANK U A LOT.
Firstly here is my post about the fact and history of Dalai, in which have my own commentary in the end.Have a look,please. [url]http://www.anti-cnn.com/forum/en/thread-1043-1-1.html.[/url] And u'll understand the 14th Dalai's story.
Then there's a misunderstanding that considering Chinese people have no right to tell human rights and no democracy in China,which opinion maybe true if in the 1950s-1960s.
We don't want to talk human rights for the 14th Dalai because he have no qualification, however, it don't express our Chinese ignore human rights in other areas. U can check more information about this point in the forum, if u want.
I feel sad when i konw what western medias are saying with barely realize the Tibet's history.
And no govenment is perfect enough, there stil remain many issues. What your opioion for Kosovo affair and war in Iraq, for human rights?
Frankly, it's a nice thing that have a communication bewteen the westerners and the easterners,really and truly. Due to the different cultures and histories, we hold a different way of thinking with westerners, that we can't adopt your ways.
I fear, you got me wrong
@mickeyzhangI fear, you got me wrong. I fully respect you. I do not think communism is evil. I think, Chinese may be proud of and happy with what they achieved in the recent decades. I'm fully conscious, that "democracy", "human rights" and "press freedom" is Western values and that there is no reason to ask China to adopt these Western values.
If you read my post, you might have remarked that I'm not happy at all with what the reality of human rights, democracy and press freedom is in the west. See the links and the photograph in my post to understand why I am not happy at all with that reality in the Western world. And as I see here in this forum, Chinese people seem to be a bit unhappy with at least the reality of Western way of "press freedom", too.
The post I made was born from desire to get help from China to make a better living in the west. And my idea is, that by unveiling the bloody reality of "democracy", "human rights" and "press freedom", the people in China could gain something from this, too. I would assume an effect of immunization of the people against propaganda attacks - military would call it psychological warfare - and I my view on this is to see such an immunization as a value.
My point of view is, that it would not only be a waste of resources and money from Chinese side, but that unveiling the dirty methods of NATO propaganda done with words like "democracy", "human rights" and "press freedom" may prevent ignorants to engage in destructive violance and lootings like they just happened in Lhasa.
It might be, that I'm wrong. It might be, that the Chinese understand the nature of the swindle of Western "democracy", "human rights" and "press freedom" without havig extra education.
My idea is on the one side, that uncovering the bloody swindle of Western "democracy", "human rights" and "press freedom" would help to make Chinese people understand the lies as they see now the lies of Western mass media about Tibet. My idea is on the other side, that uncovering the bloody swindle of Western "democracy", "human rights" and "press freedom" may help the Western people gain a better living. I see common interests of Western dissidents and Chinese people there. My hope and my suggestion is, that these common interests in unveiling the Western swindle will come together.
That's why I ask. I really do not want to prescribe China anything.
Sincerely yours,
Ein Katzenfreund To Katzenfreund:
Democracy is good thing. No doubt. But it is good only when it comes to the nation in a natural way. Forcing democracy on a foreign soil by military force, or by using threatening methods, is going to bring bad results. Also no doubt for that.
See what US has accomplished in their effort to force democracy onto Iraq. That is only one example. You have no idea about the mindset of people in Iraq. They were born and raised in an environment that is completely different from yours. You have no idea of their thoughts and beliefs. And you naively believe the western-style demoracy will give them happiness overnight, even it comes to them accompanied by gunshots and missiles.
Forgive me, though i understand what many Westerners think and believe, but the fact remains, democracy should not come that way.
Iraq is just lesson one. If the US is capable of doing such again in Iran, or North Korea, they will learn more severe lessions. The key is, you don't know how these people think, you don't know the soil. And you wishfully believe the seed of western democary will grow in that soil.
[[i] Last edited by sunxhao at 22-4-2008 18:50 [/i]] @Katzenfreund
I got your point now. Actually, Chinese government as well as many people in China know the reality of the so-called "democracy" of NATO. So why not unveil them, I have to say that's due to the biased viewpoint of western peoples. The long term propaganda of the mainstream media in the western countries demonized the communist as well as Chinese government. Most westerners can't accept what the Chinese government said.
And now China is on the way of modernization and developing fast, Chinese government made the economic construction the most important thing. At this point, the Chinese government want to keep the relationship with western countries in good condition and don't want to do anything harm to this.
[[i] Last edited by mickeyzhang at 22-4-2008 18:59 [/i]] People are so different. Thats the key point. We have so different cultures in the world. The Chinese culture, is far complicated and deeply-rooted than you might conceive. Our culture has lasted for thousands of years. Its not good in many ways, I have more complaints about it than you do, being an insider and knowing more about it, but the fact is we have to live with it, and can't wish to change it overnight. Changes are happening, as traces show in the young generation in China, but changes must happen slowly, and naturally.
And what Western media did this time in reporting the riot in Tibet, is actually firing up the anger in the young generation and driving them to hate the West, instead of coming closer to the Western value and democracy. There was a time when the young generation started to understand the good thing about the Western value, and urged the country to move in that direction. But that trend is stopped now. Many young people are speaking badly about the whole West, and they think thru the event they have come to see thru the lies and tricks of the West, and they will never believe in the West. So the event is making Chinese people, including the young generation, to stand together, against the Western value, including the Western democracy.
Confrontation and conflict caused by cultural differences is always sad, and it seems people are not learning. In China we have a very old fable. A stupid person was trying to pull the plant as he wished it could grow faster. And of course this will only kill the plant. But what I see is, many Westerners are doing the same thing to foreign cultures. There is a Chinese philosophy "Peace enjoys priority" which most Chinese hold.
Democracy may make westerners feel free, and "peace enjoys priority" make chinese feel comfortable when get on with others.
The western values individualism higher while Chinese values relationship between people better. Maybe this is the difference come from. Chinese are willing to sacrifice some individual right to gain better relationship with others then them feel comfortable, but westerners like to keep all their personal rights which make them feel good.
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謵??臏愿尧尉杉某些??膱????取蠣???膱趪?????葖??懈???闸也协蕠謵??畏??葖????懿?帽址?膰榭断側嬅 Why the Chinese characters can't appear correctly here? Is there anyone had the same problem with me?
I am on the side of China
I guess, you all misunderstood me. I am on the side of China. Please don't think of me like an ignorant Western. I do my best to understand and uncover reality. See my recent posts if you want to understand my knowledge or not knowledge in understanding.And, if you like, see here a view which I share on the recent happenings in Tibet:
[url]http://www.mein-parteibuch.org/blog/caught-in-the-act/[/url]
You may follow the links in that article, maybe some of these is new for you, too.
>Dalai Lama?
I think, he is a puppet of US. See here:
[url]http://www.timbomb.net/buddha/archive/msg00087.html[/url]
See here some words about, who was master of the puppet "Dalai Lama". The master's name was William Colby:
[url]http://books.google.com.my/books?id=8hLMOrL38boC&pg=PA92&lpg=PA92&dq=%22ST+CIRCUS%22+Tibet&source=web&ots=iL1lCVoT53&sig=A7hUJAyNOUYDN_1VX5jKDtkY5VY&hl=en[/url]
>What your opioion for Kosovo affair and war in Iraq, for human rights?
It's ugly crimes. See my link above what happened in Kosovo in the name of democracy and freedom:
"Kosovo leaders kidnapped Serbs and sold their organs, UN pressured not to prosecute them":
[url]http://worldivided.com/2008/04/10/kosovo-leaders-kidnapped-serbs-and-sold-their-organs-un-pressured-not-to-prosecute-them/[/url]
See here again my link above showing who is guilty for Iraq.
"Leading to war":
[url]http://www.leadingtowar.com/[/url]
I like the whole world to see these crimes exposed. See the picture and the links I provided in my post opening this thread.
Aleksandar Vodevic, who draw the photo I posted above, wrote that the US has bombed at least these countries - all in the name of "democracy", "freedom" and "human rights":
Korea and China 1950-53 (Korean War)
Guatemala 1954
Indonesia 1958
Cuba 1959-1961
Guatemala 1960
Congo 1964
Laos 1964-73
Vietnam 1961-73
Cambodia 1969-70
Guatemala 1967-69
Grenada 1983
Lebanon 1983, 1984 (both Lebanese and Syrian targets)
Libya 1986
El Salvador 1980s
Nicaragua 1980s
Iran 1987
Panama 1989
Iraq 1991 (Persian Gulf War)
Kuwait 1991
Somalia 1993
Bosnia 1994, 1995
Sudan 1998
Afghanistan 1998
Yugoslavia 1999
Yemen 2002
Iraq 1991-2003 (US/UK on regular basis)
Iraq 2003-05
Afghanistan 2001-05
There were more countries attacked by the US in the name of "democracy", "human rights" and "press freedom". Tibet is a coordinated psychological warfare attack from the US on China. The results of psychological warfare can be worse than bombs.
I want to stop this NATO war politics in the name of "democracy", "human rights" and "press freedom" and I see there common interests with China. I want to ask China for help in doing so.
Honestly,
Ein Katzenfreund
[url]www.mein-parteibuch.com[/url] @Katzenfreund
I'm sorry for misunderstanding you at first.
We Chinese are tired at these topics as democracy and human rights, which had been excuses that some westerners uesd to accuse us. I was a little over sensitive about these.
Sincerely,
Mickey Zhang my Katzenfreund,
:) my friend, i guess you are come from Germany. great nation! but it is a pity that i cannot speak German! well, share my views about your post.
freedom, human rights and democracy are not something Pharisaism. they are something reflected in people's Daily Life. people are living in Happiness in the country, then it is a Country of the People, by the People, and for the People. Chinese are now living in Happiness. in my point of view:
rapid growth of economy = freedom.
living a better life = human rights.
democratically elected government = democracy.
happiness = rapid grouth of economy + living a better life + democratically elected government = freedom + human rights + democracy.
and those equations represent a progressing china.
there is no Identic Form of freedom. there are western people believe in western freedom, and eastern people eastern freedom. this arises very much from the different Cultural Backgrounds in which people generate their Views on Things, Persons and Events.
China is a nation with an adequate legal system, not that perfect, though, even in the Work of Genius you may see Defects, Faults and Flaws. We all can witness a progressing China, and China has amply proved its Democratic Credentials. In fact, it could be argued that, the Communist Party, with great Chinese people and a new elected go-vern-ment, would demonstrate once and for all that China has escaped from the turbulent past to become a Liberal, Modern Republic. A strong and confident China surely can do best to cope with whatever comes the way.
but, those evil forces who are Hostile to China and Chinese, especially a handful of western juntos, diversionists, think and speak only of the contraties, distort the truths, and incite the riots, hatred and overthrows. hance they are continually discontented themselves, and by their Remarks sour the Chinese on their doggery, offend officially and personally chinese people, as well people all over the world, and make themselves everywhere disagreeable and unacceptable.
i therefore advise those hostile powers, &juntos &diversionists, or those people or politicians whose wrongful deeds are perhaps taken up originally by Imitation or Misunderstanding which is unawares grown in to a bad Habit, which tho' at present strong may nevertheless be cured when those who have it are convinced of its bad Effects, that if they wish to be respected and beloved by others and happy in themselves they should leave off fulminating others about their own business.
[[i] Last edited by bolzano at 22-4-2008 20:47 [/i]] [quote]Original posted by [i]Katzenfreund[/i] at 22-4-2008 19:28 [url=http://www.anti-cnn.com/forum/en/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=6542&ptid=1071][img]http://www.anti-cnn.com/forum/en/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
I guess, you all misunderstood me. I am on the side of China. Please don't think of me like an ignorant Western. I do my best to understand and uncover reality. See my recent posts if you want to unde ... [/quote]
:) yes, you are right! my friend. you did it. those posts show that you have a point.
i always ask freedoms as you did from the war in Iraq, do so from the war in Afghanistan. ?? do so from the bombing of Yugoslavia. ?? do so from other US invasions, bombings, overthrows, and miscellaneous war crimes spanning more than half a century. [quote]Original posted by [i]Katzenfreund[/i] at 22-4-2008 17:21 [url=http://www.anti-cnn.com/forum/en/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=6505&ptid=1071][img]http://www.anti-cnn.com/forum/en/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
Hello,
I have a question and suggestion for my Chinese readers here:
Why not make human rights, press freedom and democracy big topics from Chinese point of view?
I like the idea of human rig ... [/quote]
Ein Katzenfreund:
I agree with your point of view on these issues. Many experienced Chinese understand that the so called western "democracy, freedom, human rights, free press" and so on, are all propaganda tools invented by the US to promote their economic interests and hegemony in the world against rival nations. The problem is, the western media are totally controlled by the few rich guys in the US and in Europe. They are pumping in enormous amount of money to advertise their propaganda, and common folks and masses in the world are just easily get brain washed by these shameless propaganda. China has no resource for the time being to counter the media hegemony led by the US in today's world. Fortunately, experienced Chinese do not buy the US propaganda of democracy and human rights. We can see this during the event of the Tibet problem. Most western folks are still brain washed by the US propaganda, but most Chinese do not believe the US led propaganda.
I see no short solution to the problem. The US will continue its cheating tricks and false propaganda about "democracy and freedom", while China will go its own way and ignore what the noise made by the US. Katzenfreund,
Pls... Pls... Don't try to deceive the Chinese that western style democracy is the answer and the solution to all ills!
Timor Leste is having its second democratically elected president. The life of the people are still among the worst on this planet! Their president nearly died of gunshot from the rebel recently.
The Philippines has been having American style democracy for many years. The countries was the second most affluent country in Asia. Now, it is among the poorest, exporting millions of workers, including domestic helpers!
I have not come across any country which became prosperous, peaceful and stable as a result of western style democracy. The only exception is Singapore. However, for many years, Singapore was criticised by the west as authoritative, dictatorial, non-democratic, police state, etc etc.!
Prosperity of Europeans countries was not due to democracy. They became rich because they amassed wealth from their colonies with cheap or free labour and cheap or free land of plenty!
USA, Canada, Australi, New Zealand, etc. became prosperous because the European migrants stumbled onto vast pieces of fertile land full of crude oil, minerals, etc, FREE! They just robbed the land from NATIVE AMERICANS without paying a single cent and started to call the place theirs!!